Okay so, this is based on a pure critical build, that has access to Dead Money


***TL;DR for you? jump to the bottom of the post for the final conclusion info.


***CRITICAL RATE %

Luck + 10
Built to Destroy + 3
Light Touch + 5
Finesse + 5
1st Recon Beret +5
Ninja x 1.5

33% critical chance.

Perks: Elijah's Rambling + Better Criticals: +200% Crit Damage.

***WEAPON COMPARISION

HIGH CRIT MULTIPLIER WEAPONS


Figaro-------------------(x4 multi) (dam 11) (crit 16) (aps 4.64)
Liberator----------------(x3 multi) (dam 18) (crit 18) (aps 3.47)
Cosmic Knife SH----(x5 multi) (dam 14) (crit 14) (aps 3.00)
Shovel-------------------(x3 multi) (dam 12) (crit 20) (aps 1.65)
Chance's Knife-------(x2 multi) (dam 22) (crit 22) (aps 4.15)
Shishkebab-----------(x2 multi) (dam 40) (crit 20) (aps 2.31)
(Crit Multiplier) (Base Damage) (Critical Damage) Attacks Per Second)

After getting all the requried skills:

DPS:
Chance's Knife-----316* with Cowboy and Grunt Perks
Figaro-----------------273
Liberator--------------249
Shishkebab---------232* with Pyromaniac Perk
Cosmic Knife SH-168
Shovel-----------------118



Typical formula for the ones that ALWAYS critical (Any weapon with 3 Critical chance OR higher.
Base Damage + (Critical Damage + Critical Damage x200%) x APS = DPS

Formula for Chance's Knife and Shiskebab:

Crit Chance x 2 = 66%
APS x .66 = Critical Damage APS
APS x .34 = Normal Damage APS

(Base Damage x Normal Damage APS) + (Base Damage + [Critical Damage + Critical Damage x 200%] x Critical Damage APS) = DPS


Figaro as example.
Figaro, at x4 multiplier, will always critical.
[Dam 11 + (Crit 16 + 200% Crit) x (APS 4.64)] =
11 + 48 x 4.64 = 273. DPS

Chance's Knife
At 2x miltiplier crit, with a 33% base crit = 66% crit chance,
With a 4.15 APS rate
4.15 = 100%
2.73 = 66% Crits
1.41 = 34% Normal
With Cowboy and Grunt perks, base Damage goes from 22 to 33.
[Dam 33 x (APS 1.41)] + [Dam 33 + (Crit 22 + 200% Crit) x (APS 2.73)] =
46.53 + 270.27 = 316 DPS

Shishkebab
At 2x miltiplier crit, with a 33% base crit = 66% crit chance.
With a 2.31 APS rate
2.31 = 100%
1.52 = 66% criticals
0.78 = 34% normal hits
With Pyromanic, Base Damage becomes 60.
[Dam 60 x (0.78)] + [Dam 60 + (Crit 20 + 200% Crit) x (APS 1.52)] =
46.80 + 182.40 = 229 DPS + 3 from Burning Effect with Pyromanic = 232 DPS


*** LOWER CRITICAL MULT WEAPONS


Oh, Baby!-----------------(x1 multi) (dam 80) (crit 40) (aps 1.73)
Dress Cane---------------(x1 multi) (dam 22) (crit 35) (aps 5.00)
Nephi's Golf D-----------(x1 multi) (dam 21) (crit 30) (aps 2.29)
Machete Gladius------(x1.5 multi)(dam 28) (crit 28) (aps 3.50)
Knock-Knock------------(x1 multi) (dam 66) (crit 33) (aps 2.00)
Blade of the E.----------(x1 multi) (dam 41) (crit 98) (aps 1.56)


DPS:
Dress Cane----------283
Machete Gladius---241
Blade of the E-------213
Oh, Baby! ------------208
Knock-Knock--------197
Nephi's Golf D-------115


Same formula for every weapon here, just adapted to every weapon in here except for Gladius.

Crit Chance x 1 = 33%
APS x .33 = Critical Damage APS
APS x .67 = Normal Damage APS

(Base Damage x Normal Damage APS) + (Base Damage + [Critical Damage + Critical Damage x 200%] x Critical Damage APS) = DPS

Example:
Dress Cane, 1 in every 3 = crit.
With APS of 5
5 = 100%
1.65 = 33% Criticals
3.35 = 67% Normal
[Dam 22 x (APS 3.35)] + [Dam 22 + (Crit 35 + 200% Crit) x (APS 1.65)] =
73.70 + 209.55 = 283 DPS


Formula for Machete Gladius:

Crit Chance x 1.5 = 49.5%
APS x .49 = Critical Damage APS
APS x .51 = Normal Damage APS

(Base Damage x Normal Damage APS) + (Base Damage + [Critical Damage + Critical Damage x 200%] x Critical Damage APS) = DPS

Machete Gladius
At 1.5x miltiplier crit, with a 33% base crit = 49.5% crit chance.
With a 3.5 APS rate
3.5 = 100%
1.71 = 49% Criticals
1.78 = 51% Normal
[Dam 28 x (APS 1.78)] + [Dam 28 + (Crit 28 + 200% Crit) x (APS 1.71)] =
49.84 + 191.52 = 241 DPS



***TL;DR SECTION

FINAL DPS of these Melee Weapons with the right Perks, Items and SPECIAL.

DPS:
Chance's Knife---------316* with Cowboy and Grunt Perks
Dress Cane-------------283
Figaro---------------------273
Liberator------------------249
Machete Gladius------241
Shishkebab-------------232* with Pyromaniac Perk
Blade of the E---------213
Oh, Baby! --------------208
Knock-Knock----------197
Cosmic Knife SH-----168
Shovel--------------------118
Nephi's Golf D---------115

So, if my math is right (which I'm very damn sure it is right after a few tries) There are 5 weapons that are indeed more powerful than the Shishkebab even after Pyromaniac.

Also, if you were to make a non-crit constant-damage build. Chance's Knife DPS would be only around 150 give or take depending on if you have high/low luck, some perks, same goes for the Cane and I'm asuming they all would keep dropping. Perhaps Oh Baby and Blade of East might become stronger, but I'm not going there. I'm pretty convinced after doing all this math.

Posting this in order someone finds a mistake or a flaw in my math so I can fix and check again. But I'm pretty sure it's all good.

Well, i am going to comment any way. Where do you find all three of these weapons?

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Figaro
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Shishkebab_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Chance%27s_knife

The wikia is your friend.

Im always to lazy to look for that in wiki. Plus the Shiskebab one did not even show where to find one.....'IF' it is even in the game.

Okay guys, I just re-did all my math after checking it.

I wasn't necessarely wrong, but I had some facts wrong, which made some weapons gain and other lose some points, but not too much of a difference. However, now they all should be very close to the exact final DPS.

YAY

Three play throughs and about 250 hours and I still have not see the shiskebab. svcks to cause I would love to have it for a legion play through.

Yeah I never found it either.

I just made this build because Melee/Unarmed is my favorite, and just got Dead Money. Realized how crazy Melee can become with Dead Money <3.

* It can be found on Legionary Assassins.
* Shishkebabs are purchasable from the NCR Supply Officer, Quartermaster Bardon in the Hoover Dam Office. However, you may not be able to purchase from the officer if your reputation with the NCR is neutral or lower.
* It can also be found at the Crimson Caravan camp after level 16 from Blake.
* They can also be found at Mick & Ralph's
* The Great Khan Armorer may have some in stock.
* Viper leaders may carry one.

Just do this, when you have found each of these locations so you can fast travel to them, then you wait 3 in game days and return to all of them, see what they have in store, after that wait 3 additional days and return once again.
Repeat until you find a Kebabtallrik.

Oh yeah, I know where to find them, I just, like to find things by actual gameplay and not force item hunting, kind of, takes away the surprise of, OH I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE HERE!

Thanks by the way ;3

:B

Oh, well then I understand, but it's been that way mostly for EW so I don't really care about the element of surprise with weapons anymore.

I imagine, I still do, somehow lol. What I just don't enjoy on NV is guns, IDK why, I just find it more fun to stab or explode things :3

Hit some Fiends and all these numbers is going out of the window.

You mean fiends are weaklings no matter which weapon you use?

No, Fiends have ~6DT, cut a chuck off Figaro and Chance's Knife's damage, while it is only 10% if not less for Shiskebab; let alone Deathclaws.

Also upon examining the math's used....it is pretty weired way to do it, as how you divide hit's into crit hits and normal hits, instead of adding crit damage spread over time on top of normal damage.

This is how I do DPS:

Figaro, at x4 multiplier, will always critical.
[Dam 11 + (Crit 16 x 2 (Critical damage bonus) x1 (Critical Chance) ]x (APS 4.64) =
43 x 4.64 = 199.52

Chance's Knife
At 2x miltiplier crit, with a 33% base crit = 66% crit chance, 4.15 APS
With cowboy, base Damage becomes 27.5
[Dam 27.5 + (Crit 22 x 2 x 0.66 )] x (APS 4.15) =
56.54 x 4.15 = 234.64 DPS

Shishkebab
At 2x miltiplier crit, with a 33% base crit = 66%, 2.31 APS
With Pyromanic, Base Damage becomes 60.
[Dam 60 + (Crit 20 x 2 x 0.66)] x (APS 2.31) =
86.4 x 2.31= 199.58 DPS + 3 from Burning Effect with Pyromanic = 212.58 DPS

Figaro is lower in both DPH and DPS, Chance's Knife got a better DPS, but loss ~20% DPH.

Oh you mean that. Sorry I though I had listed the perk of Piercing Strike in the post, which negates 15 points of Damage Threshold.

Any armored enemies that have 16 or higher DT?

Also.



Uh...
That's what I was asking. When you say (Crit 16 x 2 (Critical damage bonus), that means it's only Critical Damage x 200%, when both perks add % they don't multiply alone, they multiply THEN add to the original Crit Damage. So it would be (Crit + Crit x 200%). This is what I understand by the perk description and the wikia information which seems to have the most accurate and updated info.

Following your method, with, what I assume is the correct Critical Bonus after both perks:
[Dam 11 + (Crit 16 + Crit 16 x 2) x Critical Chance (100%)] x APS 4.64 =
59 x 4.64 = 273 DPS.

And Chance's Knife would be 294 DPS.

Shiskebab is 233.

Scenarios:

A ) If Elijah's and Better Crits are +200% Crit Damage like the wikia and game both state. Shiskebab is at 6th place, or lower if there's another stronger weapon that I didn't bother to check because I didn't see the potential.

B ) If Elijah's and Better Crits are x200% Crit Damage. Which would be odd as this means that Better Criticals would in fact REDUCT your Critical Damage.

Crit x50% = 16x50% = 8?

Securitrons.

I forgot about Piercing Strike as well....because it needs really high Unarmed and not very useful when you can get hold of some nice Melee Weapon.

And yes, it is +150% damage.....so yes, your number are right, just looks weired.

Yeah, well, that Perk is useful to every weapon, Shiskebab too. And One could always have some fun with Unarmed weapons as well. I don't see it as a waste, since this Perk basically makes every Melee/Unarmed weapon more powerful.

Now Pyromaniac needs 60 Explosives and it upgrades base damage by 50% for only 6 weapons, where only one is upgraded for your build. All this trouble for just 1 weapon?

Based on that, none is superior or inferior to the other. But if I had to put personal bias, Piercing Strike > Pyromaniac.


And yep, I know what you mean. This is exactly why I posed it here and at gamefaqs, and I did my math about 3 times for each weapons. They just seemed wrong. But truth is, Dead Money really came in to save the day for underrated weapons and take the crown off the Shiskebab.

Then again, you could always use the GECK to make any Melee/Unarmed be the top of the pyramid damage and just use your favorite weapon instead. I know I did this on FO3 after I got bored of using the same thing haha, I just added them to an NPC to sell it to me for like 30,000. Add some little challenge to it.


PS. Only Securitrons have 16 or higher DT?

And Veteran Rangers, Centurion, maybe the Robots at Crashed Vertibird.

As for Piercing Strike a waste, it is more to do to the fact that I don't like the idea of pairing Melee and Unarmed; it seems very counter productive to have two skills doing a similar thing. At least Gun and EW have some distinctive characteristic, but Melee and Unarmed is almost identical. Thus I prefer have 60 skill point in explosives for my Melee Character then 70 in Unarmed.

Oh yeah, well I usually keep Melee with Unarmed and the other way around. I love 'em both so in my runs I usually pair 'em up. Besides it's pretty easy to have 3 main combat skills at 100 while having about 6 more around 50 or more for quest or other needs. Even with Int as low as 6 and without taking skill books into consideration or comprehension for that matter.

This could be one before Dead Money, but as long as you had 10 Int, and you could actually have 4 combat skills at 100 instead of 3.

I guess I might check the GECK later to see enemies' DT.

Well, for a Min-max character, you wouldn't be getting Ninja for the sheer underwhelming bonus and point investment, and Melee just look horrible compare to Unarmed.

Otherwise sure, here you go, Chance's Knife and Figaro triumphs over Shishkebab when you are prepared to break your mouse/controller.

LOL? What do you mean breaking your controller/mouse? the button mashing for the hits? I sort of do that no matter which Melee/Unarmed I'm using :B

Clicking your mouse/controller 4 times per second isn't very good for it. I mean average gamers can do 8~12 click/hits, but over time it is pretty bad. I prefer strong damage per hit weapons with power attacks so it is easier on my mouse and finger.

Oh yeah, but isn't in that case Oh, Baby! stronger? or the Thermic Lance? (No idea on the Lance, I've never used it I don't know if it works like a Chainsaw or like a swing weapon).

Well actually, Ballistic Fist have the lead. But yes, my prefer Melee weapon are Oh, Baby! and Knock Knock.

Aw dang, now i got [FOOD] written all over me..
:cake: