I searched and couldn't find a thread on this despite a search, but...

We've never done the fighters guild before. My roommate and I just started it however, and we're tearing through it at a rapid pace. I just gotta say... This story svckS. Bad.

We absolutely despise everyone in the fighters guild. The story forces you to be a wonderful human being, and that quest where we have to go calm down three of our dudes trashing a bar in crap-town... But then WE have to go do work FOR THEM so that THEY can get jobs and then all is suddenly forgiven?

To boot, EVERY mission seems to be intentionally placed as far away and as inconveniently as humanly possible by whomever built it.

Holy crap man.

If this had been the first story line we had followed in this game, it honestly would have been the last. This story svcks. The fighters guild svcks. I'm not sure who wrote and designed this quest line, but wow, man... This svcks.

PS: No, it really, really, svcked.

No, really. It made us MISS the Anvil quests, and we wish we could return to the glory days of hunting down stolen potatoes.

So you liked the Fighters Guild storyline is what you're saying?

No but really, ugh, calm down buddy. Sure, the Fighters Guild is probably the most boring quest chain in the game, I'll give you that, not a lot of fun stuff to do, especially compared to all of the awesome quests in the other guilds, but oh well. Could've been worse.

I'm glad you got that off your chest. Not much else to say.

How far into it are you?
The first time I did FG I found it boring too and stopped...
Then I went back to give it a second chance, and it was great

A few of the quests are decent but overall I agree that it's a weak questline. I especially dislike how towards the end the FG takes justice into it's own hands but then everyone applauds it. It bothers me because what I think the actual right thing to do would be is to inform the Imperial Legion and let the law handle it. Even if the law would then ask me to help them and do all the same things.

Another questline I dislike is the MG. Partly because it lets you become archmage without casting a single spell and partly because in my opinion banning necromancy from the guild was stupid and wrong and all the trouble with the necromancers that followed is Traven's own fault.

You guys have a good sense of humor.

For the record, I didn't think it was boring. I thought it was irritating and stupid.

Eh, I liked the ending. It could've been better, but then again so could everthing else.

The end quest chain was good, the other quests was of variable quality, from “rat problem” down to the “causing trouble” quest who is probably the worst. However I liked it better than the mage guild quests.

Good news, the first quest in Skyrim fighter guild will not involve rats.
If you look at the rat size in Morrowind to Oblivion to Fallout 3 you see a pattern.
I guess rats in Skyrim will be horse sized and you fight them in the fighter guild end quest.

Yup. It was pretty much just "stupid" until we got to Causing Trouble, at which stage I got pissed that my character was locked into being a doormat, a wuss, an idiot, having no character, and being someone's personal slap toy.

In any table-top RPG, a GM that forced their players into that situation and gave them only those options to choose from would quickly find no one attending their game. Causing Trouble was the primary (but not by any stretch the sole) cause of this thread for me/us.

Others rate too, mind you, but this one was the one that seriously irked us right from the start. This was a terribly constructed quest, and the quest line in general is pretty damned bad.

If what you guys are saying about the Mages Guild is true then I'm pretty bummed out. The Fighters Guild and the Mages Guild are the only two significant quest lines (KotN and SI aside) we have left aside from the main story, so the Mages Guild is next for us and you have us a little bit nervous.

I think the Fighters Guild questline is perhaps the best in the game.

I can't say specifically why in the General forum. There are perhaps spoilers here already so it might be moved.

I'm doing the Fighters Guild questline again and I'm just very impressed by it. There are major, major twists you don't expect. It is wonderful how your gain respect as you accomplish more for them, people make disparaging remarks at the begin, slowly show much more respect. The diversity of the locations gives you a great chance to see Cyrodill.

And it is fantastic how the Champion of the guild participates in one of the quests, much more so than any other guild questline.

A very, very well written Questline in my opinion. Maybe the best in the game.

Dont worry about mages guild. Its a fun questline. As for the dude saying banning necromancy is wrong, it was only banned for people practicing it without concent. Not to mention, banning it was all that prevented the world being taken over by a lich. So it was a good idea.

I enjoy all the guild quest lines, including the FG.

With the DB and MG, I now 'stop' them at a key point before losing too many guildmates.

I wish for a couple things that are a concern with all the guilds. Part of this stems from the fact that my characters prefer to belong to one guild only.

1. I wish you could choose to not become the head of the guild and just keep doing guild missions as a peon member of the guild if that was your character's aspirations.
2. I wish that if you did choose to become leader of a guild, that there would be appropriate adventure and responsibility associated with the postion instead of: 'Uh, is that all there is? Oh well, I guess I'll have to find another guild.'

There exists no quest in the entire Elder Scrolls series called "Causing Trouble"

I also think you'll find it a bad idea to come to the Elder Scrolls' forums with the intent of just bad mouthing the game. If it's not your style, oh well, complaining here isn't going to do you much good other than irritating the people who might have liked what you're complaining about.

No, Traven banned it completely from the Mages Guild, consent or not. Note the difference between "banned from the Mages Guild" and "illegal". By the laws of the Empire it is legal to practice necromancy as long as you have permission to use the body, but since the bann necromancers can't be members of the Mages Guild. If that were all there was too it, it wouldn't be such a big deal (the necromancers could establish a guild of their own), but in the afetrword of Traven's book http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Black_Arts_On_Trial we can read the following:



He sent his Knights of the Lamp to arrest someone for being a necromancer. Because just kicking her out of the guild (which is all he could legally do) wouldn't have been enough. Nevermind, that in the empire being a necromancer isn't a crime (except maybe in Morrowind) and that the Order of the Lamp isn't a law enforcement organization so they don't really have the right to arrest anyone in the first place

As we can see Traven not only banned necromancy from the Mages Guild but also had his knights actively hunt necromancers, despite having no right or authority to do so. I would agree that the necromancers (as in guild mages who were simply studying necromancy and not harming anyone) who went on to join the Necromancers (as in the Order of the Worm) did the wrong thing and they didn't have the right to retaliate in the way they did, but Traven still started it so he is responsible for all the trouble that followed.


All that said, the questline itself is alright if your character doesn't know about the background and simply buys into the "necromancy = evil" thing (made easier by the fact that all the necromancers you encounter actually are evil). A bigger problem with the MG questline is that it isn't mage-ish. In the entire questline you aren't required to cast a single spell and a warrior with no magical abilities whatsoever can become Archmage.

Seconded. I guess it′s hard to make a lot of quests that′s all about fighting interesting. But then again, I don′t really care for any quest line. I like to make up my own story altogether

Except that Necromancy was already banned long before Traven could ever take a crack at banning it. It was always banned in the Mages Guild, as well as the Psijic Order. Which the book you linked to explains in the first two paragraphs. Not to mention that "Virtually all the earliest laws of the land make mention of it as expressly forbidden on pain of death." This makes the rest of that book completely pointless, as there is nothing to debate, and nothing to ban. It was already done in a previous Age. This is another of those cases where Bethesda could not be bothered to read the game books that Bethesda made, so Bethesda completely contradicts what Bethesda says, making it very hard to take anything Bethesda says very seriously, as Bethesda obviously does not.

I apologize. I didn't realize the title was something different, nor did I realize that a unique level of pedanticism was required to interact here.

So that I can show we're equals, you know the period goes before the quotation marks, right? Also, titles of short stories should be contained in double quotes. http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/italics.htm. This might be helpful.

Presuming we're done with being amazingly anol retentive, let's move on:



I think people are allowed to critique a game and point out shortfalls. In fact, I'm pretty sure improvement of the game and customer feedback is one of the reasons this board is probably here.

There are a lot of good things about this game, as I've pointed out in several posts. There are also some flaws, as many of us discuss in many other posts. I appreciate your message that no one should be a total downer all the time, but I think that it might have been better made and perhaps there was a more appropriate person to make it to, as I do indeed lavish praise on the game at times. It depends on the topic being discussed as one might imagine.



Understood. Apparently you feel it's "complaining" while I view it as a critique. The new game is going to come out soon and there were indeed some aspects of Oblivion that should have been much better. I think that as a customer as well as a fan, we're all sort of obligated to provide constructive criticism to get a better product for ourselves, our peers, and the company that makes it.

Excuse you.

You named this one quest specifically for the reason behind your post. I went to look it up and couldn't find it, so I have no idea which quest you're talking about specifically because you went into no more detail than the name. It's hard to continue discussion without knowing what you're specifically talking about.

But hey, let's overreact and be giant jerks instead:

Hope you hate the rest of the questlines.

I did appreciate some of the individual quests in the story, for the record. I liked one or two of them quite a bit, actually. It was fun taking someone in the Alyeid ruin for example, and it was semi-useful. It would have been more useful had I not been level 46 and my partner constantly fell unconscious, but the idea in and of itself was good.

I liked hunting down thieves in caves. I liked discovering Blackwood's presence on my own in a cave (there's a corpse of one of them, showing that they had been there, even though the quest and the person's journal at the end pretty much made that observation moot).

Those two quests had potential. One of the quests (hunting the thieves) was even very fun and I'd like to do it again. I do like that people are now treating us better at the guild as well. Many of you have pointed out that you like that aspect.

Perhaps if this was the first story in the game that we had tried to complete, we'd feel differently. However, the nature of the NPC interactions given that we're the head of the Thieves Guild, the Hero of Kvatch, the head of the Dark Brotherhood, that we've saved Martin, that we've closed an oblivion gate, that we've solved 136 other quests (according to our log)... Perhaps this is a story line best entered early. I'd imagine that has a big impact on the perspectives as well. I still didn't like ""Drunk and Disorderly"" (see how I used the right quotes there) however, and wouldn't have at any level. There's really no circumstance under which our character would have accepted any of those options for action.

It is what it is.

::shrug::


I did think some of you made good points about the good stuff in the game though, and apparently I hadn't gone about acknowledging that quite enough, so... Yeah, there was some good stuff too. I just felt it could have been significantly better.

No, by all means. Excuse you.

Whether or not you intended for your first post to come off as hostile and anol, it did. Nowhere in the first post is the question, "Which quest is it? I can't find it." There is however, an attempt at a tongue lashing there.

Perhaps you didn't intend for it to come off how it did, but that's how it came off. When given a chance to clarify you chose to be snide as well.

How would you interpret your post if roles were reversed?

It's really neither here nor there, but you seemed upset and confused about it so I thought I'd offer an explanation for clarity.

I don't mind the actual quests, but I wouldn't even bother without fast travel.

I can understand not liking the fact that, despite being famous for so many other quest lines etc., you are treated like a petty adventurer in the beginning of the FG, but that's the way it is with every questline. If you neglect that awkwardness then the progression of the FG makes sense and is the same as the other guilds.
At the beginning of the FG

At the beginning of the MG

At the end of the FG

At the end of the MG

The fighter's guild is the most boring questline in all Oblivion. I wish we could have joined the blackwood company instead.

I thought the infiltration business with the rival guild was pretty stupid.