Finally after all these hours, I am starting to get disapoin : Fallout: New Vegas

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:24 pm

First of all, I love New Vegas. This is what I wish Fallout 3 was. Now I must have played over 20 hours now, and I am really starting to get disapointed with New Vegas now. What is taking the cake is the [censored] invisible walls. I spent about 45 minutes to try and climb a mountian ridge, and thought I was going to finally get over. What stops me? A frikking invisible wall. After this, I am really starting to see all the short comings of Fallout New Vegas. NV is such a less of a game than Fallout 3 is. I can see why people would think this is an expansion to Fallout 3 than a full fledge version. Map is smaller. It may look the same or bigger than Fallout 3, but lots of areas are blocked off. Blocked off by invisible walls, or just plained blocked off and you can't get into the area.

Alot of the locations you discover, are useless. A campsite, or den or what ever. Nothing is there. All it can be is a fast travel location and that's it, so there is actually less locations than Fallout 3. Alot of empty space. Too much empty space. Maybe it's the same in Fallout 3, but at least in Fallout 3, with the sky scrappers and ruins make it seem full. Yes I know it was alot of empty space as well, but at least I felt closed in a few times. Also I am hating those damn killer butterflies. If I am not suppose to go somewhere, those damn killer butterflies stop you, so you have no choice in you are on the console, that you have to go else where. If on PC I guess, God Mode will get you buy.

Yes there are graphic glitches, (I am on the 360), yes there are bugs, and I overlooked this. Yes there is lots of empty space, and lots of useless locations as well. What does it for me, is those blasted invisible walls. That just ruined the game for me, that I stopped playing the game for a week. Then I played again, loved it, but hit another invisible wall. GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

I guess I just needed to vent a bit. So I am curious, for those who love the game, what pisses you off, or what do you hate about Fallout: New Vegas.

And a request. Please Bethesda no more Invisible Walls in any game you or you let anyone else make please. All Invisible walls do is make you guys look like you do not know what you are doing. I love your games. I love what Obsidian has done as well, but just some things make both you guys look so amatureish. I expected better from you guys.

I don't like the invisible walls either. It's funny I was talking to my sister-in-law over Thanksgiving and she loves FONV, but she mentioned she hated the invisible walls.

I also don''t care for all the useless places that have markers on the map. It's like they are there only to make it look like there are more places on the map. That's it. Or as you described, a place to fast travel too.

This doesn't piss me off, but what bothers me is the NPCs in FONV. They get bunched up together and crash into each other and they don't talk to each other. It's like they don't even know the other one is there unless it's something scripted specifically for your character to hear or see. I remember overhearing all kinds of conversations between NPCs in FO3. Sometimes useful and sometimes not, sometimes just humorous. Either way, it lent a "real community" feel to certain areas in FO3 populated by people. They actually talk to each other and not just your character. The NPCs in FONV seem like robots. But I think the designers/writers put more effort into the NPC's dialog with your character rather than with the NPCs talking to each other. Still it feels odd to me that they don't communicate with each other. Just a little realistic detail that I miss.

To be fair there are some things I like about FONV, which I've already mentioned several times in other threads, so I won't do it again here.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:57 pm

Agreed. There are so many shacks, caves, and gas stations that are totally irrelevant. After searching the 10+ random caves and finding nothing really in them, i was sure that eventually I'd come across some sort of quest that would have me rid all of the caves of the baddies inside. never happened. almost all the caves, shacks, and gas stations are useless. There may be a a few ammo boxes and a few random goodies, but nothing worth ever coming back for. Yes, you could always use a random gas station or abandoned shack ass a home. But with Novac and other places, you don't really need to use a random gas station or shack as your house, especially as there are no traders/doctors out near those random places.

When I first heard how many locations there were in New Vegas, i was so excited. I was thinking that we would be given detailed places to explore, EPIC locations. Places like dunwhich bldg, tenpenny tower, rivet city, Evergreen Mills, etc. There aren't nearly as many detailed indoor buildings as there were in FO3.

Out of all the locations, at least 30-40 of them are completely useless and have no "revisit value." The type of place that, once you've discovered it, you never go back. There's no reason to.

There are a TON of "no reason to ever come back here" locations in FONV

I was really excited too...at first. Yep. They are filler and nothing more. Very disappointing. I was sitting here adding to your list of FO3 places to explore. Just in the Mall area alone...Museum of History(Underworld), Museum of Technology, National Archives and the Capitol Building...all are immense and have a quest attached to them. And that's not naming all the places in the Mall area. Not to mention the very satisfying aspect of fighting your way through all the Super Mutants.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:49 am

Man, I was a FO3 junkie, but I feel FONV is so much better in so many areas. Invisible walls and locations types have not been immersion killing for me. About the only thing hindering my game play enjoyment is the single bullet reload bug.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:16 pm

I never was able to play fallout three for more than ten minutes without the stupid thing crashing to the desktop. I like fallout new vegas more because it hasn't crashed for me once in the hundred or so hours that I have been playing it for, for me new vegas is definitely the better game despite the so called bugs that everyone else seems to be having with it. Bravo obsidian on a job well done! :foodndrink: .

See and I've had just the opposite experience. Sure Fallout 3 crashes every now and then, but it runs so much smoother for me than FONV. I can run across the wastes (with hardly an invisible wall to be found) without the constant stopping and starting that is so distracting in FONV. And FONV crashes all the time for me. VATS sometimes does not work for me in FONV or it's slow.

Interesting the different experiences people have with these games. I play on the PS3, so maybe that has something to do with the differences. But I don't think so. My daughter has been trying to play FONV on her PC and it keeps crashing and glitching. *shrug*

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:17 am

Oh noes, I can't run and jump my way to the top of a mountain without any equipment!

Dude. It's a helluva lot more realistic than those "you can't go here, turn back!" messages from Fallout 3 that'd pop up out in the middle of nowhere.

More like at the border of the map.. Realistic? So you rather spend an hour trying to get through a invisible wall thinking you can get past it instead of it telling you "Hey, you can't go here"? C'mon now, it's a video game no real life bud.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:07 pm

Am I the only person who is only disappointed by glitches.
I think you all are actually....Playing it wrong.
I SAID IT.
This isn't F3.
This isn't Oblivion.
This a new game.
It has a better story than both, and although alot of locations svck, they are more creatively made, I swear.
I only remember about 5 places in F3.
I remember much more in NEW VEGAS.
The vaults are much better.
The story is bounds better.
The art is better.
Sure invisible walls are a pain, but it's better than using the SAME METRO, to go EVERYWHERE!
You all need to think a little bit, some games are good when you play and get worse as you think.
This is a game that svcks at the beginning, and it gets much better.
I promise.
Just play.
The weapons are so much better, and more fun.
In F3 I NEVER played a melee character, now I'm playing all types of guns and melee and what-not.
My word of advice, coming from someone who HATED Oblivion, loved F3, and worships NV.
Give it time.
Wait for patches.
Maybe it's just me, but this is my favorite game of this gen.

Better then Both you have to be joking, better then Oblivion maybe.

I only can remember a handful of places to in NV like maybe 10,(and I still play it) and in Fallout 3 so much more.

What is there to remember in vegas? a bunch of one of quests, gambling, Caesar's Legion, NCR annextions, the Strip and Inivisible Walls? thats all I think of when someone mentions NV

Vaults are much better? that is a joke I don't think anyone else would say. Better the Fallout 3? are you kidding me? tell me how i'd like to hear an explanation take 3 NV vaults (not 21) and compare to 3 Fallout 3 Vaults (not 101).

Main Story is where they put most of their effort yes I agree.

Art is better? maybe you weren't looking at the Suburbs, the towns, the posters and the D.C. buidlings. Mall D.C. was much more impressive then The Strip and much larger too.

I didn't mind the metro as much when i went back to fallout 3 after NV. Invis walls and linear paths made me begging for that metro. At least i could kill some raiders or ghouls along the way.

NV was ok at the beginning and got worse AFTER all the Caeser's Legion quests were done. Whoever worked on CL I believe deserves a high 5 because they made the only faction in this game deserving of making the game worth questing for. Yes man wasn't bad either.

I agree with what the others say about the random locations and invis walls. I prefer to make my own damn quests when I play fallout. overlooking bunch of super mutants guarding two wasteland captives and patrols being sent out made me say "ok I am going to save those people" and I had to figure out a way how. That was fun, but a go get me this quest or stumbling upon "lone wolf radio" thinking it was a station and not location made to drop a star cap disappointed me. Invis walls were a big deal despite what others say, when I have spend 30 min getting to some place that takes 5 its a problem. When I have to use 2 stealth boys, 10 stimpacks and half the ammo in my strongest gun because of an invis wall, its a problem.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:19 pm

I only can remember a handful of places to in NV like maybe 10,(and I still play it) and in Fallout 3 so much more

Strange, I can't remeber *any* if your interestin locations apart from the Dunwitch Building or Megaton and Tenpenny Tower.

NV on the other hand:

Vault 11
Vault 22
Camp Searchlight
The underwater crashed B-29
Bitter Springs
Jacobstwon(but IMO, this one was quite weak to be honest.)
Helios ONE...

I could go on and on.

What I like about most major NV locations is the fact that most of them have some kind of a backstory. Not like F3 and "because it was there.. and urm, look two skeletons! That's a whole freaking Tolkien-like story!!!"

What is there to remember in vegas? a bunch of one of quests, gambling, Caesar's Legion, NCR annextions, the Strip and Inivisible Walls? thats all I think of when someone mentions NV

...and the characters, the plot, umarked quests, game mechanics. Something tells me you have been paying too much attention to the "visceral boxsand" experience instead of the other aspects of the game which are IMO made MUCH better than F3. Right.

Vaults are much better? that is a joke I don't think anyone else would say. Better the Fallout 3? are you kidding me? tell me how i'd like to hear an explanation take 3 NV vaults (not 21) and compare to 3 Fallout 3 Vaults (not 101).

ROFL, F3 being better than NV Vaults? Have you even visited them apart from the Vault 21 you mentioned?

11 alone destroys the Vaults in F3 in terms of backstory and atmosphere.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:20 am

Why do some people have to answer to New Vegas criticism with "No, Fallout 3 svcks"? Neither game is perfect and which one is better is a personal opinion. Live and let live

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:21 pm

Vault in New Vegas have more creativity than the average Vaults in FO3

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:25 am

Why do some people have to answer to New Vegas criticism with "No, Fallout 3 svcks"? Neither game is perfect and which one is better is a personal opinion. Live and let live

Indeed.

The thing I find myself increasingly thinking about NV: In FO3 places like Fairfax, Old Olney, Vernon Square, The Mall, Bethesda felt like real places that existed before the bombs fell; in NV, places like Boulder City, Nelson, Freeside, Nipton, Westside feel like maps created by level designers. For some reason, I don't find them as convincing.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:20 pm

What do I hate? The fact that they only gave Obsidian 2 years to make a game. keeping that in mind that they still managed to:
Get competent voice actors
Get them to do the voices right and record them
Write enough script to add hundres of miles of terrain
mapped out the Las Vegas general area and make sure that everything in game also exists IRL
Write the plot and make an ever changing story line
Write characters that, despite them being animated video game characters, you care about
Make the game funny
have Over 50 hours of game play and a replayability of at least 4 times, allowing you to go and do each major ending
Design over 50 weapons
design a crafting system
make a detailed map with all of the buildings they want
design each skill and encorporate it into the game/ dialouge
Get the rights to each of the songs they play on the radio
and much more

They didn't have the time needed to really make a finished project that sparkled in every aspect. They had to work with an old system, which has always had bugs, they had only 2 years, which is far too short of a time to create a new game system from scratch.

I have to agree with this 100%, with the tight production schedule, I think they did an excellent job and were able to refocus the design (a bit) and get more of the flavour of Fallout and Fallout 2, bringing the game back towards what's made it a successful series in the first place. Continuing to head down the road set up with Fallout 3 would have brought the subsequent Fallout games more and more towards FPS and less and less RPG (and just for the record I'm personally glad they brought back grave robbing ; )

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:03 pm

Fallout 3: I can remember Megaton, Rivet City, and a few others...

New Vegas: Goodsprings, Nelson, Camp Forlorn Hope, Vault 3, Vault 11, Vault 22, The Strip, Freeside, West Side, the Thorn...and more.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:01 am

I have to agree with this 100%, with the tight production schedule, I think they did an excellent job and were able to refocus the design (a bit) and get more of the flavour of Fallout and Fallout 2, bringing the game back towards what's made it a successful series in the first place. Continuing to head down the road set up with Fallout 3 would have brought the subsequent Fallout games more and more towards FPS and less and less RPG (and just for the record I'm personally glad they brought back grave robbing ; )

One thing that dissapointed me was the lack of the "Grave digger" karma perk.

"They're dead, they don't care," has become your motto. Digging up the remains of others is more than a hobby for you.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:56 pm

I just don't get that same feeling of excitement like I did when entering a location in Fallout 3.

I remember when I first saw Tenpenny Tower off in the distance. i was like wow! worked my way over to it, and when i finally got inside, i was amazed. same with Rivet City, Evergreen Mills, creepy Dunwich building, Brotherhood fort with the giant robot (name escapes me right now).

The bigger indoor locations in NV just don't give me that same feel. I know we all have different things we enjoy about the Fallout games, but discovering a building that looked EPIC from miles away and then exploring it is what I loved most. In New Vegas, often times when I come to these bigger locations, i walk up to it and A) realize the building can't even be entered at all, or B) there's not much to it once inside.

I would have rather they left out some of the random caves and abandoned shacks that have no relevance whatsoever, and put a little more detail/size/uniqueness to some of the larger locations.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:43 pm

I love both games, even though they are very different in structure.

New Vegas is completely quest/action driven, whereas Fallout 3 is all about exploration. Its possible to just go exploring in Fallout 3 and find some new things, whereas in New Vegas a lot of the locations have nothing of interest. On the flip side, the entire content of New Vegas develops according to your quest choices and which faction you side with, whereas Fallout 3 did not. Let's accept the differences of both, and love each one for what it is.

I think the GameBanshee online review of FNV summed it up perfectly, at least for me - 'Furthermore, a lot of locations are really uninteresting unless you have a specific quest tied to it, which counter-intuitively makes this a quest-driven game on an exploration-driven engine.'

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:37 pm

Fallout 3: Megaton, Tenpenny tower, marigold metro station, grayditch, super duper mart, meresti, arefu, Rivet City, the whole mall (lincoln memorial, Museum of history, museum of technology, etc.) Dunwhich building, Robco factory, Fairfax, Bethesda ruins, Anchorage War Memorial, Vaults 87, 92, 101, 106, 108 and 112, Canterbury Commons, Antagonizers lair, Corvega Factory, Raven rock, Little lamplight, Paradise Falls, Minefield, Old Olney, Nuka-Cola factory. The list goes on

F:NV: some of the settlements (Novac, Nipton, New Vegas, Westside, Jacobstown, good springs, Bittersprings) and devils Gullet are the only places I can recall off the top of my head

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:24 pm

They didn't have the time needed to really make a finished project that sparkled in every aspect. They had to work with an old system, which has always had bugs, they had only 2 years, which is far too short of a time to create a new game system from scratch.

Of course, the short time-frame and the "re-use the old system" were both bedrock concepts for the project. That was the whole point.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:48 am

Fallout 3: Megaton, Tenpenny tower, marigold metro station, grayditch, super duper mart, meresti, arefu, Rivet City, the whole mall (lincoln memorial, Museum of history, museum of technology, etc.) Dunwhich building, Robco factory, Fairfax, Bethesda ruins, Anchorage War Memorial, Vaults 87, 92, 101, 106, 108 and 112, Canterbury Commons, Antagonizers lair, Corvega Factory, Raven rock, Little lamplight, Paradise Falls, Minefield, Old Olney, Nuka-Cola factory. The list goes on

F:NV: some of the settlements (Novac, Nipton, New Vegas, Westside, Jacobstown, good springs, Bittersprings) and devils Gullet are the only places I can recall off the top of my head

This.

I love both games. absoultey LOVE them. But I did enjoy exploring all those huge locations in F03. But like somebody said, they are two different games.

Places like Paradise Falls, Megaton, Rivety City, etc were so awesome when you first went through it. There really wasn't a single location in New Vegas that just had me like "wow." Fallout 3 had me saying "wow" a lot.

Love NV, but do miss the excitement of stepping foot inside a huge, multi-level location for the first time and exploring it like in F03.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:49 pm

Lots of good point here. I really don't know where I stand.

IMO

FO3: Had a great world, it was big, I liked many of the location. It felt like a game for explorer types. Writing bordered on OK to bad. Character creation was almost laughable to anyone with RPG experience.

FNV: The story / writing vastly superior. The world seems more realistic, but I just don't get as much satisfaction exploring as I did in FO3. Character creation / game mechanics were greatly improved, but some things just remain rough around the edges (making charisma matter, energy weapons, explosives, crafting mechanics, survival.) I was puzzled by this.

I think I heard some one suggest that in the future:

Bethesda needs to make the world

Obsidian needs to write the game and create the mechanics.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:39 am

Don't get me start on Fairfax; for some reason a good chunk of East Potomac Urban is wrap around by boulders which only accessible via the north and south end, what makes it worst is its LINEAR design.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:08 am

Hmm.. I dunno. I have nearly 100 hours in NV which pales in comparison to what I put in FO3 over the past couple years. The invisible walls don't bother me so much it's that.... I don't know I've restarted a few times and despite the non-linear nature and different factions you can allign with the game always ends up the same way. It isn't as open-ended as FO3, and although I appreciate the changes I just kinda want to boot up FO3 and roam the DC wastes again shooting random creatures. As a first play through, it kills FO3 but for re playability I think FO3 is one of the best games ever made for that purpose

open ended? in what way was FO3 open ended? there was a linear main quest with no alternatives except at the very, VERY end you can choose to either send someone or go in yourself to PP, and wether or not to put something that kills all mutants.

New Vegas is completely quest/action driven, whereas Fallout 3 is all about exploration. Its possible to just go exploring in Fallout 3 and find some new things, whereas in New Vegas a lot of the locations have nothing of interest.

really? I find that just about any place I go to has some sort of quest there, unmarked or not. the only place I can thinks of that wouldnt have quests are places uninhabited by humans.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:12 am

Once you've picked a dungeon clean, it should stay clean, shouldn't it?

Generally, I would expect someone or something else to move in, particularly in areas close to Vegas. Seems like there are an awful lot of boarded up and unused shelters around that one would expect to be occupied by squatters or something. Too many people sleeping on cardboard mats outdoors or under lean-tos when there are unoccupied ranch houses and store fronts that could be taken over. All in all, there is too much unexploited infrastructure still standing in the wastes, it seems.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:12 pm

Don't get me start on Fairfax; for some reason a good chunk of East Potomac Urban is wrap around by boulders which only accessible via the north and south end, what makes it worst is its LINEAR design.

Oh no, it's the L-word again ... and it's all in caps! Didn't we agree to use the term "more structured"? Wait ... I think I recall that I proposed it, but nobody else agreed ... oh well!

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:16 pm

One thing that dissapointed me was the lack of the "Grave digger" karma perk.

It should be like a challenge perk like Lord Death is.

Maybe something like "You've made graves your own treasure hunt. Afte digging 15 graves your muscles have firmed in your arms, causing you to do +10 damage (DT ignored) with a shovel". :laugh:

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:59 pm

If folks don't want their kin dug up, they shouldn't bury 'em with perfectly good bullets!