Just saying that if you need things more specific that "It's near that city" then quest markers is the thing for you, so no point in complaining.

Let me give a concrete example. One of the quests in the College of Winterhold's questline (i.e. NOT a radiant quest) is to go retrieve 3 stolen books from an ex-member. All they tell you is that Orthon took the books to Fellglow Keep. You aren't told where Fellglow Keep is, and there is no way for you to find this information out by talking to NPCs.

Sadly, this kind of thing is far too common.

Actually you are very right, take out this stupid voice acting and give me text dialogue, a deeper conversation system and i will be perfectly happy.

I think one of http://www.google.ca/search?aq=1&oq=text+based+&gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=text+based+rpg might suit you better in that case.

Ok plain and simple...

The problem is Pete Hines gave people the impression they could play it Oblivion style with map markers telling you where to go, or Morrowind Style, where it's up to you to use basic hints and fairly vague descriptions (some incredibly vague, some very good, ranging from who you talk to, just like in real life) to figure out where you need to go. He said you could turn the map markers off and play it that way, and yes, you CAN turn them off.

The problem however is that many of the NPCs treat you as if you have the map markers. They don't give you the location name, they don't give you directions, they don't give you anything. They treat you as if you have map markers and don't provide any alternatives for people who DON'T use them. This may or may not be because the quests have dynamic locations, meaning they'd have to record 17 different lines of text that say exactly the same thing, but then provide a different location and different directions PER QUEST. The result is the average quest says "Oh I need you to get this bow, here I'll mark it on your map," and if you have no map marker: game over. That NPC won't provide you with hints, that NPC did not provide a description and there's no way to obtain any clues as to where the bow is. If you found the bow without map markers, it was either via pure dumb luck, or you went through and explored every location on your map that's marked as "unknown."

OP simply wants an alternative that requires more thought, where he's given vague directions but it's up to him to figure out the final piece of the puzzle.

Well, yes and no. They don't tell you where to go, but they do show you where to go.

which has a simple answer, back to Morrowind for me, bye guys *waves*

*They* don't; *the game* does.

And this is what this thread is about......................

Funny thread is funny

OP, perhaps you could have rephrased your complaint by not addressing the fact that the quest marker took you to the spot, but the fact that the game is designed around questmarkers...(?)

Look, another person who started playing TES series on Oblivion.

You can complete a quest without ever "activating" it. All activating does is TURN ON the arrows.

That's what I meant about the quest from the Arch-Mage, he gave you a task that was so deliberately vague that if you weren't paying attention at all, you could have missed it. And his character was counting on that, so that he wouldn't have to bother with your character again. But if you were paying attention to Edwinna Albert's questline, you got pointed to a couple clues about how to solve the quest. The mage who was complaining about Trebonius had nothing to do with the Dwarven disappearance quest, she was more about literally removing him from the post because he was a bonehead in the opinion of her and many of her guildmates. Solving the quest itself didn't reward anything, except a huge boost in disposition from every other member of the guild and Trebonius being completely taken by surprise and looking more the fool.

And figuring out Goldbrand was even more vague, because you were given only one clue: "You seek the shrine that is no longer there? An interesting concept. Look to the seas to the West. There lies what was once the shrine. Take a deep breath and begin your search." That's it. There is literally nothing else that will elaborate more on finding it, unless you look on uesp.net. And to figure out how to get Eltonbrand went up a notch, because absolutely nothing mentioned that in the game, and getting it on the unpatched version of Morrowind was even more obscure and easy to mess up before you even knew what you had a chance at.

Not all quests in Morrowind nor Oblivion were explicity "marked" or even given an official journal entry. There were a few quests and hidden secrets to be found that were only able to be found either by paying careful attention to detail and piecing the right details together, or pure dumb luck. I mentioned the Dwarves quest and getting Eltonbrand because those are in the vein of figuring it out completely on your own, with the game only providing little clue and leaving the rest of to the player to figure out.

And you can have a bit of the same experience in Skyrim is what I've been saying, it's just that if you turn off the markers, you really do need to pay more attention to a lot more. The markers and all simplify it. Without the markers, you have to rely almost completely on whatever info the NPC gives you and your character's journal to suss out the details. Many of the NPCs mark the location on your map, did you know that? I'm constantly seeing the "Map updated" line pop up in the upper left corner at the start of a quest, if I haven't already found the location myself.

I'm sorry some of you are not understanding this, but I cannot really simplify it any further without literally holding your hand and walking you through it.

So I suggest that perhaps you might be better off leaving the quest markers turned on.

Because some of you just aren't paying enough attention. It's not like Skyrim was made by somebody else, it was made by Bethesda, and much of it is still the same old saw it's always been, just now with more options to choose from instead of only just limitations to work with.

ROFL! Nuff said.

:rolleyes:

>Hey look at me, I'm pretending to be a hardcoe player.

:whistling:

I would be perfectly happy as well. That's essentially Daggerfall. Daggerfall is radient story taken to its most absurd procedurally generated extreme. But even in Daggerfall NPCs didn't give directions. Usually if you had to find an NPC/item it would be in a randomly selected inn or dungeon and the quest giver would just give you a location name. Just like in Skyrim. The difference is Daggerfall gave you the names and locations of every point of interest in the game from the very beginning. It's the same system as Skyrim with a different approach that still maintains Morrowind's exploration while implementing Daggerfall's randomness and potential for infinite content.

Morrowind is the odd man out here I'm afraid.

Playing TES since Arena =/= hardcoe player
Playing TES since Arena = TES fan

You're right my bad, guess i just got tired of reading quests i knew were going to be boring. Like the entire imperial legion quest line. It felt like playing mount and blade, except in that game enemies didn't respawn, castle sieges were actually fun, and i could use crossbows.

Haha, I'm just messing with you. Wasn't that clear?

While I appreciate your elitist attempt at profiling me, you're actually wrong. Nice try, though. Just because you like puzzle games with lots of reading doesn't make your enjoyment of the game any more valid than mine. Why don't you start working on a mod instead of complaining that one of the best games of all time wasn't made exactly how you want it?

Well then i guess maybe i am not an elder scrolls fan, but a Morrowind fan

He told you where they were...


And IIRC, you can disable quest markers in the .ini file.

Yes, I realized this, stop trying to [censored] act like I still don't know what the topic is about, I've addressed the point clearly before. And for the record, a pretty good number of quests (the ones that do not use the dynamic feature) have the NPCs specifically tell you where the person or objective is located, minus the directions. For example, the Fellglow keep Orc quest-giver. The dynamic quests however, are the quests prone to a lack of general direction or map-marking, so to speak.

Never said my enjoyment of the game is any more valid than yours, what I tried to expose is that TES has more games on it's series using texts than voices, so it doesn't make any sense to say "GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME IF YOU WANT TO READ" when you're talking about The Elder Scrolls.

If you don't want the map marker don't use it. ...NEXT!