Finite Ammo v1
by Linus


http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27731



ATTENTION: This mod requires OBSE (Oblivion Script Extender).


Summary

This mod aims to make the use of ranged weapons more realistic. Finite Ammo prevents NPCs from having a limitless supply of arrows for their bows. It also limits the number of arrows the player can have equipped at one time.


History

You may have noticed that in Oblivion enemy archers never run out of arrows. It's funny how you can dodge shot after shot, and yet your enemy just reaches back and grabs another to launch in your direction. I recall distinctly my first encounter with a Bandit Bowman. I had thought to simple out maneuver him in such a way as to let him expend his ammo supply and then launch a full attack. Needless to say, after three or four dozens shots I grew weary of waiting, instead choosing to take a couple of arrows in the side while dispatching my foe. Once my opponent was vanquished I was dismayed to find not some wonderous quiver which magically respawned ammo, but instead, a grand total of four arrows on his person. I soon realized that this would be the case with every bow-weilding NPC I encountered: always a limitless supply during combat, and then just a handful when looting.

If that wasn't enough, I also discovered that my own quiver would hold a limitless amount of arrows; I need only to acquire them. And so, I learned that as long as I stocked up with a couple hundred arrows prior to leaving town, I'd never have to engage in melee. It did strike me as odd that I could manage to fit 17,492 arrows in that small quiver, but then why complain?

I'll tell you why.

It is a total immersion breaker. Now, I realize a good many of you could care less about how "real" combat in Oblivion feels. However, there are those of us who want it to be as close to the real thing as can be simulated in-game. And thus, after several OBSE releases, and considerable time scripting, I was able to develop the mod I had once thought an impossibility.


Description

Finite Ammo seeks to make ranged combat more realistic (and dangerous) by limiting the number of arrows that can be equipped at one time. Through a couple of rather intricate scripts I have been able to limit the number of arrows on NPCs to twenty, and to implement a system that detects when an arrow is loosed. It is now possible to dodge your enemies' arrows until they have exhausted their quiver, thus forcing them into melee combat. It also means that killing an NPC quicker will result in more arrows as loot.

There is a caveat: the player no longer has a bottomless pit of arrows to draw from in combat. When not in combat the player can select one type of ammo to fill a quiver of twenty arrows. When the ammo is selected all but twenty of them will be assigned to your "Ammo Bundle". The remaining twenty will be available to equip and use. As long as the player is not in combat he may reselect or refill his quiver as he sees fit. The kicker is that once combat begins only the arrows you already have in your quiver can be used. Once your quiver is depleted you will not be able to restock until you are not in combat. I guarantee you will quickly learn to be prepared ahead of time. Taking full advantage of sneak attacks, as well as singling out opponents will be the norm.

This mod is compatible with Crossbows of Cyrodiil, though users of both may experience some lag during combat. In the future, I hope to release a version of Crossbows of Cyrodiil that integrates Finite Ammo into its own scripts. This will help to eliminate any stutter you may encounter. Crossbow bolt quivers only hold ten bolts at a time, as opposed to twenty arrows per quiver.


Installation

Just unzip the .7z file to your "Oblivion\Data" folder and enable the "Finite Ammo.esp" in your load order.


Disclaimer

This mod is currently classified as a BETA, and thus I can not guarantee it will not cause problems in-game. More than anything, v1 is intended as a "Proof of Concept". However, I have worked hard to ensure it is bug free, and doesn't conflict with other mods. If you have any feedback regarding bugs of any sort, please feel free to PM me.

Thank you, and enjoy.

OoOh! I like the planning-before-combat part. I'm using Wrye's combat fumbling which helps in that regard too.
I'm a little worried how this mod will work with a ranger who uses many different arrows for different situations. I mean, I have large area damage arrows & silence arrows & Light arrows and many more. These I would most likey use 1 or 2 arrows of before switching to my "normal" arrows. It seems with thi mod I don't have that option: If I choose silence arrows then I'm forced to use them throughout the fight. I think it should be possible to fire off a special/magical arrow (that you'd stuck in your "normal" arrow quiver) and then switch to "normal" arrows.
Perhaps you could allow for this by making a secondary quiver that could only hold say 5 arrows?

This is certainly something I am hoping to implement in future releases. In the mean time I just wanted to release this "proof of concept" and get any much feedback as possible. It is my intention to set a count the records the number of arrows assigned to the quiver without limiting them to one type. However, the scripting already has driven my half crazy, and I can be certain when I'll be able to expand upon it.

Just keep looking for updates and hopefully soon I'll be able to improve about this version.

This sounds like a great idea, especially limiting the players arrows. It gets on my nerves with npc's, but as long as you don't let them live for to long you don't notice it, but it always seems strange to me that you can constantly pull an endless supply of arrows from your quiver and breaks it immersion like you said. I'm defiantly gonna have to give this a shot.

Could that first paragraph have been more dramatic?

Give me a break dude.

Downloading now!!!

Maybe I missed something, but what are you talking about? :mellow:

I believe hes talking about the first paragraph under history were you tried to make the npc waste his arrows. I thought it did its job well tho, "selling" your mod i guess.

This really isn't that practical in a game like Oblivion. Of course, it's really immersive, but then it should also be that one arrow could kill a person, like in real life. But that's not present either, because that's not how Oblivion is built. You can't win from an ogre with a huge amount of health, by firing 20 arrows at him. Even with the added sneak bonus, you won't be able to kill it. Trying to add some poisons to your arrows might help, but it will never finish it off. Ranged will become underpowered, even more then it already is. FCOM makes ranged a bit stronger, but it also makes the Creatures around you stronger, so you will never be able to finish off an opponent.

Of course, for those real immersion players, this mod is a must have. But it isn't really that practical. Please, give me arguments on why I should use this mod.

you sir don't have the correct mods then. Ever heard of Duke Patricks mods?

Uhhm, no I haven't. What do they change then? And could you maybe give me a linky?

no sorry he took all his mods down and asked that they not be re hosted. His archery mod ups the damage and basically makes archery more realistic. Loosing fatigue when arrows knocked/when running,taking away your perfect aim by offsetting your crosshair in a random direction when shooting based on your marksman skill and other factors, and other things im probably forgetting. The point is it makes archery more deadly and realistic, and this mod Linus came up with here helps improve that realism which is why they compliment eachother.

Really if you can just find a mod that increases damage with bows you may find this mod more to your liking. One of the problems you have to think about tho is that if you up damage to much you will make bows overpowerd. Theirs other mods that can make it more balanced tho. like a no backwards running mod, or a reduced backwards running. Theirs also marksman challange which has many ini options, you can have it offset your arrows so theirs no perfect aim, npc's can denok your arrows, it can stop you from moving with an arrow knocked, among other things.

Really i guess my point is this mod might underpower vanilla archery, but using with other mods compliments very well.

Heh... It was meant to be comical, not dramatic. I'm not a salesman, I'm a modder.




You make many excellent points about the vanilla game, and I knew this when I made v1. Firstly though, most people who use this mod will likely be using other mods to improve archery. Secondly, this is the first release, and as I have already said, it is meant primarily as a "proof of concept". Thirdly, even in vanilla Oblivion a skilled archer can bring down an ogre with a handful of arrows. That is if you take into account that by the time you face an ogre in the vanilla game, you will be of high enough level to have more powerful/magical equipment, likely a higher sneak skill, and considerable rank in Marksman. Of course, I suppose if you continue to level up eventually you will encounter nearly indestructible ogres. However, that is a fault of the vanilla game, and can't be remedied without mods to begin with. :rolleyes:

To be honest, I feel no compulsion to offer arguments as to why anyone should use any of my mods. The description of the mod in the OP is sufficient to explain what it does. The user is perfectly free to decide for themselves whether a mod is worth their time. If my mods do not reach the standards a user has set, I understand and can assure you, there will be no hard feelings.



Absolutely! Duke Patrick's mods are incredible! :goodjob:



I would be very surprised to find anyone was using this mod alone with vanilla Oblivion.

This is a nice idea.

I don't want to be limited to one arrow type per battle so I won't be using this mod, but it's a brilliant idea. You have my support, and if you ever solve that issue this will certainly become a mainstay in my load order. Good luck!

Keep checking for updates. I hope to make some more progress on it soon. Thanks for the support!

Arrays. Perhaps put different "types" of ammo into arrays, with a max of twenty arrows total. (so you could conceivably have twenty different arrows equipped....) And just use a hotkey to pick which type you want to use. Have that become the default arrow type, until the PC runs out, or, they manually switch to a different type. Not sure how you would display what type of arrow was in each "slot" though.

Maybe just use "page" keys? Hit one to go the next array, a different key to go to the previous array? Maybe display a text message on what type of arrow is in the selected array?

any way to uninstall this mod? it's pretty cool, but with fcom if penalizes archers too much. Anyways, tried uninstalling but only got crashes during load screens till I enabled it again

EDIT: NVM, I just set the arrow limit on a player to 50, problem solved

Thats likly because this mod adds savegame bloat. And alot of it.
I think its a nice mod, but it could use a little better implementation. I think it'll be the mod i've been waiting for once linus has had more time to work on it.

Y`know, I have often been in long arrow duels with some NPCS, but I always thought they just picked up my arrows and fired them back, like I would with them!


Thanks for this! D\Ling...

Just out of curiosity, how exactly does it cause bloat? :huh:

To be honest, im not sure of the exact method myself. But when i tried it for the first time, i was around vitharn in SI (its possible the bloat had something to do with those respawning ghosts?), And i noticed my game seemed a bit more unstable than usual. Not too long afterward, i got a CTD, and checked for bloating in wyre bash. I got 5 unnull'd refs, and tried the same scenario again without the mod, in which case i had no CTD or boating.

I dont mean to be too critical- on the contrary, i just want to get this to your attention for the sake of futre releases. I always HATED how NPCs had infinite ammo!

Those references were all in respawning containers; they will purged systematically. Mods like these will increase savegame size up to a threshold when fully functional. However, as long as the game continues to purge containers appropriately that threshold will never be exceeded.



I don't mean to be too critical either, but please do not make accusations of bloat without solid evidence to back it up. A great many users are scared to death of that term, and will avoid like the plague any mod it has become associated with.

So, that means that only a certain amount of nullified refs will be taken into the savegame? The fact of the matter is that the savegame was bloated.

To verify this you would have to take a savegame, record its size prior to using this mod, then enable this mod and record the increase in savegame size over time. Unless you can give me exactly "how much" size difference you encounter, and over what period of time, it is impossible to know if bloat is actually occurring.