I've been somewhat confused by the use of fire/frost atronachs as "daedra" in both oblivion and morrowind. For one, they are not daedra are they? I was under the assumption that atronachs were merely summoned elemental golem type things that mages whipped up. But more importantly, have fire/frost daedra been replaced by fire/frost atronachs in the series? Or are they trying to make them out to be the same thing? The latter wouldn't make much sense, since after playing battlespire I've had quite a few conversations with them, and the fire/frost atronachs of now seem less than talkative.

In general, Daedra in TES IV: Oblivion are less than talkative. Of the many types in the game, only three are capable of speech within the game mechanics, and of those three only two regularly speak to the player outside of combat taunts - and those two are added by Shivering Isles. With the plain game, only Dremora have the power of speech within the game mechanics, and there are almost none that are willing to speak to the player or other non-Daedra NPCs. With a Charm spell, however, you can get them to talk to you, but they have very little to say.

Note: A lot of this is my own personal extrapolation.
Atronachs are Daedra in that they are immortal beings that did not participate in creation. The thing that is special about them is that their bodies are not crafted by the creatia inherent in a specific realm or another. Their bodies are composed of, sort of, a clump of creatia floating through the void. I guess that you can call it possessing a hunk of matter. Now, mages of both mortal and Daedric origin can provide the matter that they possess and thus bind them. However, they are like golems in that they are very much mindless. Perhaps less intelligent even than scamps or Clannfear, but certainly more mentally (and physically) resilient.

I liken them to living elemental blasts. They've got just enough intelligence to follow commands, but most of their essence is consumed with just keeping themselves together. Literally.

Uhh.... Battlespire seems to indicate that they are very well intelligent, much more so than a scamp, and are not mindless. You can read about it on the imperial library, under "The Story of Battlespire" in the "Shade Perilous" portion

"Atronachs encountered here are of three elemental domains: flame atronachs, or fire daedra; frost atronachs, or frost daedra; and storm atronachs, also called storm daedra."--Vala Catraso (Priest) & Smokey Morth (Sorcerer) from Morrowind

Also:

"The flame atronach is a powerful Daedric summoning associated with elemental fire. Crystalline elemental fire compounds called fire salts may be salvaged from the remains of banished fire atronachs."

The frost & storm atronachs have similar statements about them...

Earlier they were built in the mages guild and given souls in what was refered to as routine atronachy classes. Thats why there are flesh atronachs, zombies don't have intelligence. They've got Ice, Iron, Flesh, Air, and Fire varieties for assembly, and these also usually have damaging auras. The elemental daedra were the Fire and Frost, now they are Flame, Frost, Storm, and Flesh.

So is this just chalked up as a discrepancy between the games? Fire/frost daedra in battlespire were not simply summoned, they were intelligent, talked, conspired, and had their own hierarchy of command. Atronachs were not even considered daedra until morrowind, I believe in daggerfall atronachs were simply humanoids, elemental creations in the shape of humans.

It doesn't have to be considered a discrepancy. It could be argued that as with any sentient life form there is a wide range of IQ levels going on there, or that the ones from Battlespire really are Daedra who have simply taken the form of elementals out of personal choice.

No, in daggerfall there were fire and frost daedra and air, fire, flash, ice and iron atronachs, just little bit different naming that's all.

Only in Morrowind did atronachs become daedra. Originally they were (in my opinion, much more interesting) wizard-made elemental golems before they got retconned. For the record, there are separate frost and fire daedra in Daggerfall and Battlespire - I do believe that's what you're talking about.

This is true, the case is similar in Morrowind as well, while according to the gameplay mechanics, it's probably possible to give any kind of Daedra dialog, outside of a few quests, Daedra generally don't talk, and Dremora don't even have any speech in combat, so the fact that they're not shown talking doesn't mean much, and if I remember correctly, didn't one of the Temple quests in Morrowind involve talking Atronachs?

It's quite clear that after Morrowind, Atronachs have become Daedra, it would seem, though WHY Bethesda made them Daedra is not clear, but since the fire and frost Daedra have not appeared in Morrowind or Oblivion, I suspect we might be able to assume that Bethesda has retconned Atronachs into taking their place.

I don't know why you all keep saying it was MW that reconned the atronachs being daedra. Battlespire seemed to have been that first. If it's naming, then oops

Atronachs were definitely sentient in Morrowind, there was a Temple quest where the player was required to talk to each of the elemental atronachs in a cave and solve their riddles, which shows that they can talk and understand what is said to them.

Also, in the Daedric shrine quest for Molag Bal, a named frost atronach was the consort/lover of a winged twilight who was Molag Bal's daughter, which shows that they have distinct personalities and identities, unlike say, a scamp, clannfear or vermai.

I'm not entirely sure about in Daggerfall or Oblivion, as the appearance of all 3 Atronachs changes between all three games

In battlespire they were still the same type of daedra they were in daggerfall, morrowind started the switch to atronachs. I just don't see how two completely different type of creatures just got melded into one thing.

I tend to think of it as it simply being a name change, and you still basically have element-based daedra, and then those wizard made golems.

Exactly, just different names nothing more.

Makes sense

What about the DF: Flesh Atronach (Golem) and SI: Flesh Atronach (Daedra)?

If it's just a simple mapping:


Then:


Yet:

While the SI: Flesh Atronach (Daedra) is also animated by a Daedric spirit and otherwise treated as one. It also appears to be a construct. It's literally sewn together. Is it an SI: Flesh Atronach (Daedra) Atronach (Golem)?

So perhaps?:


Explanations.

1. The suggestion in Lugars quote, a merger of the two creature types.

2. The DF: Flesh Atronach (Golem) only inspired SI: Flesh Atronach (Daedra).

3. The lore on the Element-type creatures is rather disorganized.

4. Gameplay wise, the Elemental Daedra, Atronach (Daedra) and Atronach (Golem) are occupying the same niche.

I was a little confused by the orginization of that post, but I'd imagine the SI ones are sewn together tissue possesed by a daedra.

I've tried reorganizing a bit. Probably while you were reading.

The point is that while it appears all the DF: Element Atronach (Golem) are gone and the DF: Element Daedra renamed. There is actually something that looks like a Daggerfall Golem in the sense that it's constructed, but is still called Atronach.

This is a counter example to the idea that they were just renamed.

Which leaves a merger as the only valid option.

or perhaps flesh atronarchs are a special case, and the two exclusive types still (daedra, golem) exist, but its also possible to blend the two types. body of a golem controlled by a daedra.

What exactly is the difference between a Flesh Atronach and a Zombie? Aren't both previously dead tissue that's been reanimated by the introduction of a soul?

Zombies run on the souls of their old (mortal?) owner(s). Or so it's implied by Preperation of the Corpse, where smarter beings make better zombies. They're basically just people that have come alive again but with dead bodies.

Flesh Atronachs on the other hand don't seem be made from old bodies but rather "the element of flesh" (is it dead even?) and are animated by what appears to be a random spirit. Hence they're more like constructs.

Zombies often are not really made of multiple people and houses a daedric soul

What about Bone Stalkers and Bone Lords? They're not zombies al right but animated in the same fashion and made of multiple people.