I'd love a better 1st person view, but even more so I'd like a 3rd person view aim for my bow. I have not even been able to find a mod which does a proper job of that for Oblivion.

Totally agree. In Oblivion, and even Morrowind, felt as if you were just a hand with a sword. And a third person view? No thanks.

I think being able to see your body to some extent in first person would be nice, but i'm not entirely sure how well it would work since usually Bethesda uses different meshes for first person than in third person-at least for hands, although I suppose only hands would be especially important for level-of-detail reasons even with a first-person view of one's body. I think having things like seeing your hand opening a door would be unnecessary, it'd add too much time to have to watch that animation every time you want to open or close a door. Seeing your hands while climbing up a ladder or some such thing on the other hand would be alright. I think the F.E.A.R. games pulled it off pretty well-the only thing that's different here is that the clothing and armor are customizable. For that matter it'd be nice if they'd been able to make the engine able to display reflections of the PC and NPCs-that's always something that's bothered me somewhat in these sorts of games-I can sort of see how that would be a technical challenge since characters aren't nearly as static as scenery but it'd be nice at least have like basic mirrors or something so you could check out your character without having to go into third person mode.

Erm, How many people in real life see their feet, chest, etc. when they walk or fight?

I'm just confused, could someone show me what folks are proposing?

In real life, when I kick someone in the face, I always get a good look at my own foot too, right after it removes to offending face.

I suppose if you have a sufficiently large belly you won't see your feet, but that is unusual for most computer adventurers I believe.

Aye, so folks aren't asking to have an alwas viewable body, but just when appropriate like you describe? That seems logical :nod:

100% whole-heartedly agree with including first person viewable body. Disembodied cameras bugged me since I first played wolfenstein

Sorry, again, I posted that before I read the announcement that it was an entirely new engine...

In which case, there's even more scope, and less room for excuses, when it comes to first-person-whole-body-visible implementation. (Is there an overly-technical term for that?)

And, of course, if Halo manages it then I'm sure Beth can sort something out!

it will be hard to make a game in which you can do the same as looking around with your head and with your eyes, since they are two different things. So as long as the game is playable and looks cool, while we don't have any of that Virtual Reality futuristic interfaces to play I don't think it will be possible to make such views managable with a keyboard and mouse.

What you're suggesting isn't what this thread is about. Load up either Halo 2/3/Reach (or even Jurassic Park Trespasser) and point your view down, you will see your body in all it's glory (especially in the case of Trespasser).

This is a MUST. At LEAST from the waist down.

Play Mount & Blade in first person to see how much fun it is and how much it puts you into the characters shoes. Especially when you rag-doll down a hill in first person after being knocked off your horse...

Here is an example of what is good immersion (pay no attention to the low graphics setting of the indie game being played, just the fact that you can see the entire body).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO3lEEm5gWM

I believe they are calling it First Person Actor or FPA for short.

I would be very surprised if Skyrim did not have this. Bethesda prides itself on their TES games being cutting edge, and with first person viewable bodies being included in more and more first person games, it would be odd for them to develop an entire new engine and have it be technologically behind so many of its competitors. Dark Messiah was on the Source engine. Bethesda's brand new engine should be able to handle it.

Uhh...

Every helmet in the game has a reasonable amount of space too see through...

Don't blame poor mesh design on this. All of those helmets actually had space, they where just poorly designed. What kind of helmet makes a person blind?

http://historyshop.piratemerch.com/images/medieval_helmet_300404.jpg

To be honest the more life like the game can get in anyway will be a added bonus as long as it does not hinder or worsen game play experience we should be all for it!

Nice plug for a most excellent game. I forgot how well M&B implements this, and it's a low poly game. For anyone bored with Oblivion or Morrowind or just can't wait for Skyrim, Mount & Blade is a great time killer! And I have completely change my opinion on the matter and am in support of the OP.

Why not add all of these in? Just why not?
I say put both the see your body in first person view part in (like arma 2, i love that you can see your body) and the helmet thing in, just make the helmet thing optional. And to those of you who said "what if you were wearing a deadric helmet?!?" well obviously when you are look through eye holes in a helmet it is going to be hard to see, but in FIRST PERSON VIEW, YOUR GUY HAS EYES, which means that it would be restricting for the most part at all.

I want this for sure, atleast the first person body. If the helmet thing was there, I wouldn't be bothered one way or another about it and would probably end up playing without after a while, but whatever.

First person whole bodies for sure!

I want to see the mole on my chainmail-bikini wearing female character's boobs! Bouncing boob physic and HD texture are welcomed! Implementing this gimmicky feature will take many resources. If the developer didn't planned this feature from the beginning it will never be implemented.

I've said this several times (in this thread), but I'll say it again: no, implementing this doesn't take many resources. Or... any extra resources. At all. They already have the models and animations, it's a matter of camera positioning more than anything and that's something they're going to have to do anyways, whether or not they let you see more than your arms.

If you think that it's just a matter of camera position then can you show me any Oblivion mod that works well in implementing first person view body? If it' isn't easily modded then it will take a lot of resource (and hassle) for implementation. And then again we are talking about new engine here. I'm crossing my finger hoping that the new engine can support this feature.

It would be cool, but think of the work to implementing animations for:
-Grabbing all the objects in game
-Interacting with levers, switches, doors and a bunch of other things

It would take a lot of work. If they implement but don't work on these couple things it will break immersion. So I'd rather not.

I've heard there is a mod that does it, but I've never been able to find it. That said, claiming that Bethesda couldn't do it because modders can't when using the very, very limited tools that Bethesda has provided to them is ludicrous.

And as I've mentioned before (again, in this thread), this has nothing to do with the engine. At all.


You're missing the fact that these are all things that deal with the character's arms... which we can already see and use without any animations for any of these.

Make it like Crysis. I think they had a perfect first person viewable body.
You saw your arms when you swam, you saw your arms when you fell from a height, etc.

Looking down at your legs isn't a must for me (although it would surely be great as well), but the above really is.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear in my previous comment, so I'll say these:

The developer definitely have ability and capability to implement this feature. But it's a HASSLE. Doing that (in my assumption) will involve extensive tweaking or even rewriting of the game engine if the engine didn't support it to begin with. If the development has already started, the developer already planned what feature that need to be add during design phase. The developer won't be rewarded for the hassle and in many case adding this kind of modification to a complex system like a video game may cause EXTRA bug/glitch. Which is more hassle than it worth. So (my assumption again) the developer will only add gimmicky feature than cant be easily added via player's mod. Not because they don't have ability to do that but because they have no reason for it.

And no. Simply changing camera position generally will only make very glitchy first person view experience. That's why you have difficulties in finding the so-called mod. Even if such mod exist it doesn't mean a squat because Beth's using a new engine we don't know a squat about.

I'm using assumption here because we have no knowledge at all about Beth's new engine for Skyrim or the development process. Unlike some people in this forum I don't regard my assumption as facts.