I got an email last night from a guy who pointed out an in-game error due to a problem with a script in Darknut's GDR, and for some reason pegged me as the guy most likely to be able to fix it. The problem was just a simple variable that the script forgot to declare, so it was an easy fix. I decided to look and see which of the other scripts were broken. Looking at all 209 of them in MWEdit, 37 of them wouldn't compile. So, I fixed them.

http://btb2.free.fr/files/morrowind_gdr.zip

I'll update the mod list soon.

-BTB Out

Thanks, BTB. Your fixes are awsome.

I don't understand how mods like this and Immersive Chargen enter the Hall of Fame with such bugs and no fixes.

edit: And you fixed the graphic herbalism glitch that was driving me insane because I had no idea what was causing it. Thank you BTB.

Wow great work!!! Thanks

Have you also fixed the bugs of the fog's level in some cells and also cleaned the dirty refs?
please say yes

Always appreciated!

The fog's level I think is an MGE issue, although I'm not positive because I've only heard about it in passing. Darknut has spoken on the dirty refs numerous times in the past and said that they belong there, which I'm beginnign to think is only referring tot he references that are identical to the DNR "master" plugin. Either way, I compromised by only removing the problematic dirty references, which were the luminous russula and violet coprinus edits (or lack thereof).

BTB => I speak about one of these posts that I have seen in the forum lately:
by chris.arceo And after this post by eveningleaves:

And a response by panurgy:

Maybe you can make a second fixed plugin's version but for the player who plays with MGE? (and I thinh they are many many players who plays with MGE )
pleaseeeeee


An what about the dirty refs in the NoM DNGDR's plugin?

WTF? This mod is like 3 years old. I haven't played it yet. So there are broken scripts?! I'm really sick of these [censored] mods.

I still dont understand how those dirty references should be there. A dirty reference is basically supposed to be where something in the .esp file was messed with but not actually changed in any way from what is in the .esm. People have gotten rid of the dirty refs without any apparent effect to game play, yet Darknut insists that getting rid of them will break something. So I have to wonder, what exactly is the purpose of the dirty references because so far I have yet to hear an explanation - other then they belong there and removing them will break something.(which isnt really an explanation to begin with)

Anyway, nice that something has been fixed.

Mostly has to do with popularity and people being forgiving. I think if most people realized there were problems and that fixes were not really planned, the mods might not make hall of fame.

the version before the latest release of Immersive Chargen does actually work great, the latest release has the game breaking bug though. Check the forum thread for it and you'll be able to pick up the earlier release

Okay, yeah, I remember someone telling me about that, and I forget why I dismissed it as a problem that very few people would ever have.

I basically need to adjust the fog levels in those three cells to something over than "black". I think. I'm actually not 100% sure.


I edited both plugins.


Well, to be fair, the one that was brought to my attention was probably the only one of the bunch that would give an actual in-game error. A handful of others are ones that weren't functioning as intended for various reasons, but weren't actually causing any error messages. The bulk of it, though, was just lazy/bad coding and syntax errors, most of which wouldn't have been caught by the CS in the first place. And really, a sizeable portion of the game itself is coded the same way - the engine just tends to be extremely forgiving of bad coding.


There is a rare occasion where "dirty" references are actually needed - BTB's Game Improvements even has a handful in the "Equipment" plugin. OBviously, the vast majority of the ones in GDR are not amongst those rare exceptions. Darknut's concern - to which I am largely sympathetic - is that people would just run the plugin through TESTool to "clean" it, which would indeed break it. The problem is just that nobody has wanted to be the one to go through, determine which "dirty" references truly do not belong, and deal with them as they should.

Nice attitude.



This is very highly regarded mod used by a lot of people. Considering the amount of work that goes into these things you should be more appreciative.

And THAT'S why such mods are in the Hall of Fame. Virtually NO modders can build something like GDR and avoid bugs entirely. It takes the work of the modding community to accomplish that, of which BTB taking up the task is a perfect example.

It's also a great example of how BTB may just have too much time on his hands, but we'll not go into that right now.

All you need to do is set the fog density to 0.1, and it should fix the problem without any significant difference in appearance. I think the difference might not even be noticeable, but you'd have to test it to be sure.

fogbug: if difference between 0.1 and 0.0 is noticeable, 0.01 is enough and currently used by tes3cmd with multipatch or --fogbug

I'm not saying that these mods do not deserve to be in the hall of fame, but I think it is slightly inconvenient that after 3 years the main download still contains game breaking bugs.

Based on the stuff I've read the fog bug is only present when using Nvidia graphics cards - the drivers render the cell black if fog density is zero, and setting to 0.1 should (I think) do the trick.

0.01, please, as Abot said. On nvidia, me thx.

I have an ATI card and I get the fog bug.

Newsflash: 5+ years after release, Oblivion still contains game-breaking bugs. So does Morrowind.

Even professional QA isn't perfect, especially not on huge sandbox-style games like the TES series. And you know what? QA was paid to test the games in those cases.

No one is paying modders to bug test their mods, or paying anyone else to do so. Finding bugs in mods tends to depend on community feedback and whether or not the mod author (or some kind soul like BTB) has the time and will to fix it. Sometimes they don't. It happens.

Yes, bugs are certainly inconvenient, especially when they linger. Bit like leftovers gone bad in the fridge, really. But the "I expect all the bugs to be fixed in this free mod someone created voluntarily because I demand it" attitude in this thread isn't helping much, either.

Oops - yep, as Abot said. Somehow I missed his reply.


Fair enough - I did say it was based on what I had read, not from experience. I'm also using ATI, but I haven't gotten that far in the game on my current playthrough so I've not experienced it myself yet

Well, i did not find any dirty references in the "Equipment" plugin. There are a few of the typical "AMBI" entries when editing a cell, wich can be safely removed. And there is no way that the removal of these few entries would brake your mod.

As regarding Darknuts GDR, there have been reasonable posts in the past stating that cleaning with TES-Tool will not break the Mod, which i can confirm. These people played through the mod, so did I. I checked every deleted entry in TESTools-Log and found nothing removed what would be needed in order to function.

I guess that there i a misunderstanding in defining what a bad, or dirty, Reference or entrie is. The actual references in your mod (not the AMBI), for example, are nessassary in order to function (e.g., the repaired daggers). There are not dirty and will not be cleaned away by TESTool. As no deliberate changed GMSTs (i recently read in a post that TESTool would do that) will be touched. I am sympathetic to Darknut as well that, in order to all the myths an d misunderstanding, he might feared that TESTool would clean away essential functions.

I would say it is the other way around:

The problem is just that nobody has wanted to be the one to go through, determine (and actually proove) which "dirty" references truly will break the mod. - If asked, the only answer one gets is "it surely will break this mod", but never what actually would break the mod

They're "dirty" if you're using the MPP, and were necessary in order for me to edit certain items/enchantments and also retain the MPP fixes (bluescript is one, and there are a few others).


I'll submit that you probably are more aware of the effects on TESTool on GDR than I am. Personally, I'd advise against using TESTool to clean a mod in *any* situation.


I read that three times, and I'm still confused about what it's saying >.>

My point is, these references (and similiar ones in other mods) will not be touched by TESTool. So there is no valid point in using them as an example.

English is not my native language, so please have mercy

I'd like to know exactly to why not use TESTool? I never found actual proof that it removes certain important data, wether in GDR nor in other "supposed not to be cleaned with TESTool" Mods. I played a lot of cleaned Quest/Dialog/Companion Mods over the past six years, with not a single problem.

If asked why, the answers given by modders/users are simple "It will break the mod" or "Some mod need dirty references to work". Aha. But i would like to know what exactly will break. Something like "This entrie in that mod will be deleted, and thus break the mod".

So this "Do not clean mods (or certain mods) with TESTool" sounds more like a myth to me instead of a solid, evidence based argumentaion. I'm not claiming that it is not possible that a mod can be broken because of cleaning, yet i have to run across one.

Therefor i question this "myth" in general - and i would like to hear opinions, thoughts and of course facts regarding the topic.

Hope you did not need to read this post multiple times ...

Edit: Oh, almost forgot to say: Thank you for your effort in fixing this mod

This is what I agree with. I would like to know exactly what will break and how it will break if cleaning takes place.