I'm tired, so I won't really get into this... All fire is small explosions, its a type of explosion categorized as thermal, flame is air and fuel exploding, technically, the flamethrower is throwing a liquid explosive and ignites it, if incindiaries are contained in something like a lead pipe, it will explode, if in an open -something- it will burn, matchheads are a good example. The flamethrower is merely coating the target in a thermal explosion, simple as that.

Umm thers a part in a gun called the hammer that makes the firing pin hit the bullet.

Why is it that people don't seem to understand, EVERYTHING IS ENERGY.... the point being made is that its stupid that the the pyromaniac perk requires an explosive skill of 60 when its in the energy weapons category. Just because fire is energy, isnt a good argument. explosions are just energy being released, and you can get real technical with all the weapons categorys.... but i digress, i agree that it should be an energy weapon, but i think that the pyromaniac perk should use a different skill check.

Yea pyro having a enrgy weapons skill check would be usefull.

But then again, since gunpowder is merely swift combustion, it's fire as well. Not to mention kinetic energy of the bullet, or of melee weapons, or any kind of weapon for that matter. Without energy you would just be stationary (even though this would mean that your potential energy is sky-high) and if your body is fed it will use the energy in the food-/end rant. Gotta draw the line somewhere, simple as that.

Whatever.

Good point; Why is that though? Was it combined training, the right aptitude, or what?

All energy weapons damaged using energy based attacks (this would include a flamer), however, (unless I am mistaken) a flamer will operate without flame and still soak the target in liquid fuel. (Its a squirt gun). A laser rifle will not operate without a laser, and a plasma caster will not operate without plasma to be cast.

IMO the flamer is no more an energy weapon that is a can of roach spray.


I dunno... but they have such things.

Also, I can see using a battery as the slug, and it's current powering an electro-magnet. :shrug: (not that I have seen such)

The flamer fuel is a liquid explosive, and the flamethrower ignites it, why is that so difficult to comprehend? Don't say flamer fuel isn't an explosive, because its a fact, i'd use logic on you all but i am tired.

The weapon categories isn't sorted by how the "hurty bits" hurt, but by how the weapon is operated.
Energy weapons discharge stored energy from an energy source, Gun weapons shoots out bullets and pellets, Explosives is either thrown or placed [ninjaedit] or launched.[/ninjaedit]

GMG, it releases a continuous AOE damage. Explosives shoot explosive, flamer fuel is an explosive.

Actually there is an explanation (though it may only convince Fallout fans). Energy Weapons were classed as energy weapons if they took batteries as ammo.

I think there is argument that a flamer with electric ignition might qualify (if one is content to win by technicality; but flamers take fuel for ammo).

To all saying that flamers burn rather than explode:
Why are incendiary grenades considered explosives if their main job is to burn things?

To me, it's all about skillsets. A flamer could explode, if you screw up, that is.
Explosives skillsets are all about stopping your explosives from exploding at an inopportune time. Since an explosive expert is going to be trained to deal with volatile substances, they would be more apt at operating flamers than an energy weapons user, who needs to know a lot about electronics, wiring, and physics to operate his weaponry.

Also, the flamer is decidedly low tech compared to energy weapons, even the relatively complex incinerator weapons are not as complex as the average laser pistol.
Flamers really belong in explosives as a balance issue- especially considering that "Pyromaniac" still requires EXPLOSIVES SKILL.

If we have to spec EW to use flamers, why do they expect us to also spec explosives if we want to use flamers more effectively? It's madness.
In summation: make pyro an EW perk
OR
Make Flamers explosive weapons.

Not saying you're wrong but a genade has a detonator, ( whether timed, fused, impact or triggered by remote ).
A flamer has a pilot light, an ignition that stays alight, that lights the jet as it mixes with the air.
So putting it as an explosive because of incindary grenades, means that the AMR should be explosives.
Due to it's special ammo and plasma grenades should be EW's due to plasma in their name.

Grenade launchers launch explosives for you, and high rate of fire does not equal continuous.
A flamer is closer to a plasma caster in how the weapon operates, than a GMG.



I'd make it require energy weapons or explosives and keep the flamer as an energy weapon.
In fact, many perks needs an 'or' modifier like that; piercing strike, slayer, unstoppable force, concentrated fire etc etc.

Grenades [IMO] should not be in Explosives, because the training to use them effectively involves pulling the pin (and what?) besides tossing it.
Fallout originally had a thrown weapons skill for spears, grenades, rocks; possibly knives too. :sadvaultboy:

Given that the skill is gone :shrug: Explosives is plausible; but inelegant IMO.

The pilot light ignites the explosive, yes. A timer ignites the explosive in a grenade, yes. The burning fuse ignites the explosive in dynamite, yes. You see where I am going. The thing is, the AMR uses boolet to do damage. Explosives use exploding explosive explosions to do damage, flamethrower fire is exploding flamer fuel, which is an explosive.

The weapon is properally known as a flame thrower, so make it melee like spears untill thrown weapons come back. ( JK ).

Or leave it unskilled with a base damage across the board, and perks based on other skills.

Timers in grenades are accessible? (and influenced by operator skill?) ; Fuses yeah, of course, Dynamite yeah, but flamers?

:laugh:
Not a bad idea.

Question (to all). Is a Molotov Cocktail an energy weapon? How about a sling with a gas soaked sponge set on fire?

I added to my last post, using logic to win this game.

This is a game?

We can win something?

This is my life Location:Colleges of unreason: Erewhon.
Reason is unreason, cast it off Vulkan people.

The pilot light is a thin tube from the flamer fuel tank.
How is a grenade timer anolagous to the tip of a 40mm grenade or a fuse or a mines proximity sensor? Pilot light isnt so far out there.

Does flamer fuel explode on contact (damaging the target), or does this occur at the nozzle when its lit?

No, but it's not close either which is the problem.
One side is going to get what they want but neither is going to be right.

A flamer is not going to deal more damage as you raise in skill.
As unlike with guns there is no skill in aiming or timing that much, no hitting vital points or causing the burst at the right place and time.
It just requires speed and not getting shot at.

I say it should be left it as a base damage weapon that requires no skill at all, unless they make a new one for it.

Do time bombs when the fuse burns down? Do mines explode when they hit the ground? Different explosion times and mechanisms for different explosives.

My push for skill with flamers is... that lack of skill with flamers be a bit like lack of skill with nunchaku. (we've all seen that right :laugh:)