:rofl: Never had Nunchaks, ( I did once chuck a nan however. )

Point and click, not much skill ( says the man whose living in a burnt out house, once made of straw. )

Idk, it just seems silly that no skill fits in game, but it could with reason and logic fit any ( though badly. )
Darn it we need more skills, then we can have more skill points too.

Using my earlier argument, a molotov cocktail is an explosive weapon as it is operated just like a grenade.
The sling doesn't fit into any of the existing categories. It would have it's own together with bolas and such [edit] or perhaps be tossed into a broad 'Thrown' category along with all grenades and hurled missiles.
I can't recall seeing a sling in any Fallout game though, perhaps for a good reason

Exactly


*sigh* He's saying a gauss rifle would have no hammer as it uses an electric magnet coil to accelerate the a chunk of metal to incredible speed.


No the explosive skill is all about using grenades, mines and other bombs. Being easier to disarm those items is just a bonus.

In RL flamethrowers don't explode that easily. The fuel mixture is very difficult to ignite so it uses a magnesium. Unless your using an incendiary round shooting a flamethrower tank rarely resulted in an explosion despite what the movies say. Military grade Flamethrowers are in fact aren't as simple weapons as you think they are.


I don't know the way the incinerator works sounds like it be rather complicated. A flamethrower also doesn't involve throwing grenades, arming mines or other wise shooting an exploding projectile. So how does it fit with explosives? If used properly a flame thrower doesn't blow up.


Won't happen, those differences were intentional so you'd have to make choices about how you spend your skill points. If you want the power having all the close combat perks would give you, it requires you invest in both melee in unarmed. It was an intentional design decision to make some perks harder to get then others.

Won't happen, those differences were intentional so you'd have to make choices about how you spend your skill points. If you want the power having all the close combat perks would give you, it requires you invest in both melee in unarmed. It was an intentional design decision to make some perks harder to get then others.

Personally I'd like to see a more realistic flamethrower one that shoots a jet of flame instead of a short range cone.

Usually its the wizard's ranged backup weapon for when they can't cast a spell.

Odd that you'd not see it in a Post Apocalyptic setting, as its easier to make than a bow or spear (and ammo a plenty).

*But would using a burning knotted soaked rag as ammo make it an energy weapon (due to heat and splashing burning fuel onto the target)?

@ Lord Vukodlak
The flamethrower fire is an explosion, read my posts.

Defintely should be Explosives! :flamethrower:
Or Big Guns! :flamethrower:

It is low tech - not one other energy weapon exists in real life.
No futuristic power source here. Just gold ole napalm. Guns all use gunpoweder. EW use Battery Power.
Every other energy weapon is a direct hit scan weapon
Almost every 'gun' type weapon in explosives lobs - like the incinerator
The Perk Pyromanic is in Explosives. Duh. But as it is there is only one thing in Explosives that benefits from it - Incendary Grenades.
Unless you take meldown only the explosives and Incinerator can damage the user of the gun

For balance reasons, there is a severe shortage of weapons in Explosives. Energy Weapons have tons.

In this... I would prefer empowering explosive weapons to make the skill to useful to pass up, rather than shoehorning ill fit weapons into it for added value.

(but then I always wanted the Fatman to take you to an overland targeting map and let you pick a city to nuke.)

And Flamers were not shoe horned into EW?

It may not be a perfect fit for either skill, but it makes more sense to be in Explosives. Plus you can not make them so powerful that you do not even need to put points into the skill to kill things. Like Guns - lol

Military Flamethrowers are actually much more complex and technical weapons then you guys give them credit. Its not as simple as a huge bottle of hair spray and a lighter.


I did and I completely disagree with your foolish notion of defining an explosive, By your logic the 10mm pistol should be an explosive weapons. So I can't take your logic seriously. The way a flamethrow operates is worlds away from a grenade or a mine or a timebomb. A jet of flame is quite different then an explosion.



Keep in mind they'll change pyromaniac to another skill as making them different was an intentional design decision. Or they'll nerf the perk down down to +20%

Ah, the lack of wizards is why there's no slings



As I said earlier,


So the sling would still use the same skill to use it no matter what the ammo type is.
Using Mako's argument, a shotgun using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonbreath_round would suddenly turn into an energy (or as he says, explosives) weapon.
I disagree with that, and as far as I can see, the game designers do too.

Ironically [to D&D] a sling is actually an extremely difficult weapon to learn to use effectively,
From wiki
A sling has a small cradle or pouch in the middle of two lengths of cord. The sling stone is placed in the pouch. Both cords are held in the hand, then the sling is swung and with a flick of the wrist the pouch is pulled away at the precise moment. This frees the projectile to fly on a tangent to the circle made by the pouch's rotation. The sling derives its effectiveness by essentially extending the length of a human arm, thus allowing stones to be thrown several times farther than they could be by hand.

That sounds much more difficult then using a bow, so thats probably a big reason it doesn't exist i the wasteland as it be so hard to learn how to use. And of course when you run into a guy with a 10mm he empties the clip into you. I also don't imagine a sling doing well against armor designed to stop bullets. If the concussive force of a bullet doesn't transfer through the armor and cause some hurt a sling rock certainly won't.

Yes... Of course it was.
Well... you could make weapon jams set you on fire, and let skill make that not happen too often. :laugh:

It took me an afternoon of my childhood to learn to hit a 1 by 1 meter target at about 10 meters distance with a sling. Then my parents found out what I was up to :/
Some other kids in my neighborhood became very good with their slings over a summer. They ended up shooting down chestnuts from the top of some very tall trees.
But yeah they'd be mostly useless in combat when you have guns available, as they were used to hunt birds and very small game. You'd have to hit the face or temples directly, or use a big sling with a long "spin-up" time.

^^Lol, talk about David vs Golitah. Man spinning a sling around while the tropper winds up a minigun.

I didn't say use, I said build.
Its just a rope, or strip of cloth, and a pouch. Fallout 2 started you in a near stone age tribe like the lost children in Mad Max. Your first weapon was a spear (a flint spear if you war luucky).

*sigh*
This topic again.

I think it should be in Unarmed.

No it's not. A flame is not the same as an explosion. Not all fires/flames are explosions and not all explosions contain flames.
An explosion is the ignition of either a finely distributed fuel and oxidizing agent so that the resulting oxidation is fast or the the moment a pressurized vessel's pressure is so high the vessel bursts.

New spin.

I say science, fuels, technology, chemistry, but never repair that would be a bad fit and just be silly.

Grenades, mines, rockets. What do all these have in common?
They are all explosive materials in cases. When the explosive is ignited, it explodes, but outside of a case it's not as effective.
The Flamer is not similar to those at all. Yes there is a flame, but unless you're wiring a detonator to the tanks, throwing them at people and setting them off, it isn't the same thing.

^^And using a flamer/incinerator is simlar to a High Veliocity Gauss Rifle?? Or super high tech pew-pew weapons?

Like I said, not a perfect fit anywhere - but better in explosives then EW.

...

Meh, I honestly don't care, the Science skill is already illogical as hell, might as well just throw it in there.

@ beancounter:
My point was that it doesn't work like an explosive, nor is it used like one. Personally I think they should've kept big guns, rather than redistribute them into other categories.
You can't argue that it is the same as a grenade, but you can argue that it is a basic way of imparting large quantities of thermal energy to a target, so they stuck it in energy weapons.

^^But even within the Explosives weapons the weapons are not that related. The operation of a GMG or Fatman is dramatically different then tossing a Grenade. By following that logic they should move Plasma Grenades/Mines and Incendiary Grenades to EW. They do not use an explosion to kill, instead they use Thermal Energy.


Out of all the perks that boost a weapon, only the Pyro perk has a skill requirement that does not really boost weapons in that skill. It is like requiring Meltdown to have an explosive skill requirement. It is silly.

But those weapons still explode, dealing damage in every direction within a certain radius, and destroying itself in the process. The flamer shares none of those characteristics, so I don't see how you can call it an explosive.

I feel we've gone around in a circle a couple of times now.

"They don't explode, they don't fit in Explosives."
"Explosives are unbalanced though, and flamers could fill the close range spot"
"Flamers uses fire which is energy, so it belongs in Energy Weapons."
"I want Big Guns back"

Et cetera, et cetera.

Any new arguments or is this going to go around more than a carousel with it's technician on a lunch break?