^^LOL, that sums up most internet discussions! Round and round.

Still don't see how thermal energy qualifies them as EW. Incin Grenades kill by Thermal Energy, so do plasma grenades.

It does not really matter that much to me, since I am on the PC and have modded my game to make them Explosives. Makes the skill much more viable, though the Incinerator really overshadows the Grenade Rifle except against high DT targets.

Going by this diagram, photo and explaination.
I would say if pigeon holed into one skill set it'll be EW's, not that I actually believe that.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/flamethrower3.htm

The fuel is shot like a beam, it is not exploded or made to explode on contact.
The system requires pressure and multipule uses of energy.
By these and other articles the modern flamethrower is more akin to EW's in the fallout universe.
The ancient versions more akin to throwing in the fallout universe.

The incinerator however I have no clue, it looks as if it lobs a more solid tar like fuel to burst apon contact so that may have more akin with explosives.

So how about flamer - EW's, incinerator - explosives.

Essentially Energy weapons all take power-cells as ammo. Flamers do not. :shrug:

*And as was said... they do not explode at the target, or do explosive damage at all. As far as I know, you can't blow your finger off with one.

^^Incinerators explode on contact. Or the flame splashs out. Same thing in my mind.

What is an incinerator but a made up flamer version of the grenade rifle? (Its not using Plasma... is it using using napalm squirts? or flaming cork bullets? or what?)
I still don't see it rightly as EW or explosives.

*And it does not use power cells as ammo ~only as an igniter.

Another observation is that all energy weapons will function with only electrical power. the weapon itself generates the damaging energy.
*By this definition I would accept an arc welder as an energy weapon, or even an http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/P10379162.jpg :teehee: (heat).

To me it's just a question of being another bizarre quirk of the game,.
As there are so few of either in game, it does not matter even if make a big guns character.
I really don't care where they get put, and I think for most it's the same.

Another question on this topic is the basic, explosives are nerfed give us a weapon to shoot early on that does proper damage.
If the game had more of these weapons again I could care more, but they're rare so it really has no matter.

Yet another one is the weapon placement and tier system.
Are they early weapons or late game ones, if late game ones why are they in EW's as they already have greater later versions of true EW's.
If early ones why are they not more common, would it not make sense to place more of them.
Then switch skills to make them explosives and remake a more focused and limited "big gun" skill.

Finally perks, the perk to go with flamers is an explosive based one.
Why if the common theme to fire is energy, this just confuses the gamer more.

Any one of these makes no sense, so all we can do is form groups to bicker, and or discuss rationally where they should be.

@ Gizmo you mod, if you cared where they went in your game, where would you place them and how.

Mods only tinker... I can't [and won't ~lightly] try redesign the entire game precepts. I may mod my copy, but the game would likely become unbalanced without additional work on other aspects of the game.

My concern is the continual path that all Bethesda series games seem to tread. Pretty soon it will be 3 skills; Stealth, Bash, and Spell. :shocking:

*I can easily envision Hacking and lock picking to become equated with stealth (play), and strength/combat equated with break lock; or the PC could 'magic' the door open in TES. All paths would be made viable, all doors could be smashed unless you were Stealth oriented and so, not strong enough. Or you could resort to magic for everything.

Maybe, I only have Oblivion and FO 3 to go on here about dumbing down.
Morrowind was a better universe and better written, but as a well modded Oblivion is actually amazing.
I'd say Beth should have learnt something from it, after Skyrim we'll see, but I still hope for the best outcome.

Choice is a thing that gets ignored more now, but NV at least put more of it back into the game.
It was also well liked, so good chance it won't get left out in future.

Gizmo the Tinkerer, I bet you were a gnome in baldurs gate and AD&D.

Ack, did anyone play a Gnome in Baldurs Gate. Even though Tiax was cool.


There is an arc welder weapon - the Thermal Lance. It is a melee weapon.......

Edit: as far as breaking something with a mod. I don't think it really impacts anything. There are hardly anyone using flamers in this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLAatFzWeIg

:lmao: Yeah... I'm going to guess DLC Pitt. I have them all, but have not begun any of them yet.

Might be neat. I can see that as a melee weapon. The ripper and cattle prod were melee. I never looked at it even in the resource files.
I should play them sometime soon, after I finish the Realms of Arcania series.

:rock: +2, Sethly man I miss that little bi-polar fellow, another reason to play my chaotic neutral builds.

Is the thermal lance fire based?
I'll check as I'm trying a ganger heavy atm and it'll be nice to have later with a chainsaw.
I think I only now of two places where flamers can be picked up that are not random, both pretty late game.
It seems more and more that they should have either been dropped or better yet patched in to spawn more frequently.

^^ Tiax Rules! - Or what ever he used to say in BG2.

Spawn Camping the energy weapons store will ususally get you one early - around level 6-7. After that good ole Weapon Repair Kits will keep it in shape. Thermal Lance is not impacted by Pyromanic. Even though I would love to make Chain Saw Character.

Thanks Beancounter, I've already got a lucky find with a level one incinerator.
No darn ammo though, three weapon skills tagged and trying to raise them equaly only using "big guns" and heavy melee weapons is going to be tough.

The chainsaw is great put a hocky mask on and go ghoul hunting, never had a vault empty so quick.

^^LOL, sounds like fun in the vault. There is always an Incinerator in the next town after Goodsprings. Ammo is a pain until level 3-4. After that you should have no problems.

Good luck on the three weapon playthrough. It is hard to do it. I am rolling a Guns/Explosives character right now. Of course Flamers/Incinerators are explosives in my game. :flamethrower: Only messing out on the Plasma Caster/Tesla Beam gun so not that bad. Also modded the game to make the Grenade Rifle/Launcher/Machine Gun shot farther. Plus made the ammo cheaper. It has been a LOT of fun. Nothing like launching a 40MM Grenade against a bunch of Viper Gangers! Then pulling out a Light Machine Gun to mop up!

Of course there is no need for VATS or Sneak Attacks or Headshots. Charge right in - Terminator Style.

He used to say a lot.

Do you know how gauss weapons work? They have no moving parts. Zero. Zip. Same with railguns. They (meaning gauss weapons, not railguns) use magnetic accelerators (coils, hence the term "coilgun") switched on and off in sequence to propel a metal slug down the barrel at otherwise unachievable speeds. There is also no explosive force involved whatsoever.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Coilgun_animation.gif

That should pretty accurately show anyone curious enough to look at that how a coilgun works. It uses a conventional projectile propelled by unconventional means.