No. The learning curve steep. The point and click UI is baffling. New gamers can't figure it out. Whoever they are and whoever it is Beth is marketing to.

TBH I don't believe the classic cRPG games are that daunting to a New gamer. some of the first games I had ever played we're Baldours Gate, NWN, Diablo and games like that. I believe I was around 10 and was able to play them as they we're meant to be played.

Obviously these games took a while to fully grasp but the fact remains that I could still play them as not only a New gamer but a young one as well.

If todays New gamer can't figure out classic cRPG's than their simply not trying or find them to not be their cup of tea. IMO

I agree to an extent. I grew up on consoles playing shooters. Never played a point in click in my life, nor had I played a turn based shooter ever.. I basically played like a pro immediately. It took almost no time at all to grasp the UI and how to play/go about things. I'd had it all figured out before leaving the cave you start in, in Fallout 1.

Edit: That being said, I'd prefer it remained an FPS/RPG. I'm not a fan of TBS or RTS at all. The only reason I was ever able to play the originals as much as I did/do is the incredible story, background, choices and so on. If they could give a game like New Vegas the same substance as the originals then I'd have my dream game.

I was being sarcastic. I have full faith that if a gamer actually has an interest in a series they can figure out the "bad and awkward UI and mechanics of FO". Not that I think that, either.

Somebody just doesn't want to admit who the broad audience being targeted by marketing is and why games have been changing. $$$$$$$. It doesn't take a sloth trudging through FO 1 to figure out who the target audience is for many a modern game. As gamers, that IS something everyone should worry about as it can impact the quality of games.

Play Fallout 3 before you play New Vegas. Not that Fallout 3 is better than New Vegas, which is all based on opinion, but New Vegas has more features and if you play it before Fallout 3 you will not fully appreciate it without the features you previously had in New Vegas. Play Fallout 3, then New Vegas. It's good to play things in chronological order instead of half ass.

OP,
Forget all of this hardcoe vs casual stuff. In my opinion the biggest difference between players who favor FO3 and those who favor NV, is that FO3 is geared for players who like to do everything with one character and NV is geared for players who like to use multiple characters and have different consequences for their actions.

On the sub topic of hardcoe vs. Casual gamers.

Neither game is more or less hardcoe than the other, just different. I prefer my in game choices to have impact and I hate being able to everything with a single character, but I have friends who have put in far more hours with their single character playthroughs than all of my characters combined....who is the more casual gamer?, who's more hardcoe?...*shrugs* mostly depends on how you define hardcoe.

Agreed!

My post wasn't meant to be about hardcoe vs casual.

It got turned into that when two people misinterpreted my intentions because I wasn't crystal clear. What I should have focused on was story, world, lore.

Yet, I was a lil bit miffed when previous poster insinuated us old timers are out of touch with the mass gamers who rate FO3 higher than FONV.

Frankly, if you want to get into the game, it does make a difference if you start at the beginning. The story does matter. Can you jump in at 3 and play it? Sure. But stepping out of Vault 13 for the first time, embarking on a grand quest, navigating the vast wasteland and meeting and talking to these people who have emerged into a dangerous world IS important. Meeting the Brotherhood of Steel for the first time, seeing your first Super Mutant. The Master, learning about who these people are and how they survived, is what gives you an emotional attachment.

Winning the game, seeing the end sliders, and moving onto FO2 where you see Enclave troopers murder people from V13. Finding out what happened to the VD, cut scenes with Frank Horrigan, discovering the political schemes in the background that will shape the world of FO. Coming face to face with the Enclave for the first time.

These events in order shape your view of the world, and to do so out of order cheapens the experience. Sure, it is great when someone new comes to the games, and says "Damn, that was great! I want to go back and play the others!", but that is nothing like the experience of those who played it from 1 onward, hurrying as fast as we could to find that water chip.

But whatever. Us crazy old hermit wizards can just sit back in our cave, grow our beards long and remember days when story mattered and be thankful when we pray to the gaming gods that FO wasn't bought by EA because we would already be up to FO 15, day 1 dlc, microtransactions, and always online drm. Cuz trust me, I like FO3. I am glad Beth has it if anyone had to. I am glad they are cool and gave Obsidian a crack. But unless you dislike rpging or totally despise turn based combat, there is no reason to start with the company who bought the franchise than the ones who created it.

Well said. But the thing is most not all of the younger generation, will always choose the game with the flashiest graphics. The number one complaint I've read and heard from young Fallout 3 fans, is how terrible the originals look. And how isometric view does not allow them to become the character. So to them they don't care who Richard Grey and how Super Mutants originated, all they care about how to kill them.

Again like I stated before not all young'uns share this same sentiment. Some are willing to look past the outdated graphics, and give the games a try.

We of the older generation benefit from the fact that we were there when gaming started. We've seen how video games evolved into what they are today. Most of us started with Atari, Nintendo, Sega and Intellivision. Personally I started with the NES and Mario. So we grew up playing the games not for their graphics but for their story and gameplay.

For example Final Fantasy VI trumps any Final Fantasy game released in the current generation.

What's the earliest sytem most of the younger generation remember? PSX? PS2? XBox? Whatever the case when they started gaming, games looked really good. The games had 3d models. Not the 2d sprites we grew up with.

Yep. Kinda sad.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Super Mutants on fire off the shoulder of the Military Base. I watched power armor glisten in the dark near the Lost Hills Bunker. All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'm the younger generation and I have an NES. I grew up watching my dad play Mario and Zelda.

I grew up with atari and the nes, and basically owned every console. Owned myst, doom, and wolfenstein hell even oregon trail. Fell in love with the cirst FF and dragon warrior game and basically hundreds of rpgs and 1000s of games thruout my life. I value story and c&c over graphics and hell ill even dare say over game mechanics.

I cannot get into isometric view games though lol. I do own the first 2 fallouts and even tactics, baldurs gates 1 & 2, temple of evil, icewind dale, torment, and ao many other games.....but the isometric I just cant get into. I dont understand it because im a DM for pathfinder and we use minis and roleplay, but combat in isometric I cant get into.

BUT I will say its growing on me. Its not something I can do for hours, but slowly im getting there. Its just taking me a really really long time to finish the games because I can only play so much before I have to switch to another game. Hopefully once I get ummm liking the isometric I can spend alot more time on them.

Basically long story short, isometric is an aquired taste. If u grew up playing them when they were the norm, then u wont have much trouble because it was the norm and ur used to it. If u didnt, sometimes or quite often the gameplay of isometric is an aquired taste that u have to get used to or force urself to swallow.

Okay coffees done, time to get the rum to spice it with and my ramblings are done

Skyrim devs confirmed for casual Skyrim players.

I never pay attention to arguments concerning labels put on gamers. I don't care about what it means to be "casual' or "hardcoe". Do I care about story, lore and roleplay?.. of course I do, RPG's are the only kind of games I play. But, whether or not I am considered by some to be "casual" or "hardcoe" depending on what games I play and in what order I play them, I care not. I started playing FO3 last night and so far I am enjoying it. That is all that matters to me.

I started this thread to get people's opinions on FO3 and FONV in regard to quality and gameplay, not to reflect on whether or not I am "casual" or "hardcoe" based on which FO title I decide to play first. Maybe I should have been more clear about that in my opening post. I never considered that it would turn into an argument..

Cool, let us know how you like it.

I'm closing this as resolved now considering folks are taking jabs at one another and questioning reading comprehension which is not allowed.