I don't know why it took me this long to think of it but the question is, How did the Western BoS back in California learn of the "super mutant threat" in DC?

I ask this because "In the year 2254, some time after the (apparent) destruction of the Enclave, the Brotherhood's ruling council, based in the Lost Hills bunker in Southern California, decided to send a contingent of soldiers all the way to the East Coast, with two important objectives. First, to scour the ruins of Washington D.C., once the nation’s capital, to recover any and all advanced technology. Second, to investigate the reports of super mutant activity in the area."

I can see the BoS going "lets send some people out East to DC" after all New Vegas has an image of Mr.House standing in front of what can only be Optimus Prime Liberty Prime so its possible they learned and wanted to check it out.

But how did they know of the super mutants? Why would stupid mutants few in numbers in DC be a threat to them in California? Its possible they got their hands on Vault records but still its not a threat to them. Nothing on the scale of the Masters Super Mutant Armies. With over 2000 miles between Western BoS and DC I don't see it as possible for the BoS to know, at least nothing worth making it a second objective. MWBoS don't seem to be in contact with the Western BoS so they would not act as a relay and why would they not just take them out if they were talking to one another?

Edit: I say threat because, with the BoS in decline they would need more reason to send people all the way to DC then just find tech that might not even be there anymore. I also should have Called this Topic FO3/New Vegas Canon issues...

I've always wondered that. But this Fallout 3 you are talking about...

Regrettably nothing about the Brotherhood expedition to D.C. makes the slightest sense.

I am talking about New Vegas and FO3, there are some serious Canon issues I need answered that stem from this Topic.

First New Vegas was made by Obsidian but Bethesda gave the ok to everything, they were the overseer. FO3 to me was already on thin ice, its story did not hold up well with me. Now New Vegas breaks that thin ice FO3 was on and Beth gave FO New Vegas the Green light!

So questions I have.

1) Why did the western Bos send Lyon and his people East when BoS population is dwindling?

2) Why did they not give Lyons T-51B power armour?

3) Where did Lyons get his T-45b armour? I was going on the assumption they came across a cash in the East some where.

3b) if that is true how did they make it all they way through Legion territory and the rest of the country that is now a hostile wasteland with only a small contingent of BoS without any PA of any kind?

4) Also the topic question. How did the BoS learn of the Super Mutants coming out of Vault 87? Does this mean they have scouts out there? How when they really don't have the man power?

5) They found nothing else worth while on that 2000 plus mile walk to DC? They single mindedly walked to DC for something that might not be there? Nothing else made them say "hey lets stop here?"

I was only aware they were sent to search for tech in the ruins of D.C.

When I did research into the series and got a grasp on the lore I pondered on this as well. My only guess is maybe the Western Elders gave them BoS combat armor or something.

Well, as best I can tell, the T-45d Power Armor was slowly being phased out by the T-51b Power Armor just prior to the Great War. I can only assume that the US Government would'nt want Power Armor being in the civilian sector, so maybe the suits they recovered in the Pentagon were scheduled for destruction?

Perhaps this being 20+ years before F:NV, the Legion might not have been as powerful, or maybe just getting its start then.


Only thing I can explain it as is 'plot hole'

Reading the Vault I came across that second objective, so maybe the vault is wrong :shrug:



Possible but not even one suit for Lyons himself?




Possible but a far better use would be to give them to national guard units, units back in America keeping order or in Canada that way they can take the T-51b suits used for those units (like the ones in FO1 intro killing Canadians) and send them to the front.



If the legion was not started yet (to lazy to do the math) there is still the matter of 86 tribes or so and over 2000 miles of hostile wasteland.


Agreed its a plot hole and the others are as well.

Another Question would be. They found nothing else worth while on that 2000 plus mile walk to DC? They single mindedly walked to DC for something that might not be there? Nothing else made them say "hey lets stop here?" Thats alot of nothing.

4) They didn't know they came out of Vault 87, until the Wanderer told them. If you "quiz" members of the BoS before setting out about the Super Mutants in general, they tell you that for whatever reason, they simply don't know anything about them, except how to kill them.

I've only played FO3 and as such, that part I know for sure, haha.

I'm not in the game of blind defending. I'm just trying to explain with the answers that I have because alot of these questions, I actually asked myself before at some point :laugh:

Even so how did BoS 2000 plus miles away know of them?

Unfortunately I am unaware of that reference. I will just have to go back to the Citadel and read every damn terminal they have lying around now, haha.

People drift. The only thing I can think of is that people managed to wander west. If the experiment in Vault 87 was to use the FEV, Super Mutants have been in DC for a very long time. "Reports" don't always mean official scouts.

I'll let you in on a little secret. The BoS are the descendants of the Imperial Guards, so they have the 'magic guard' senses that trouble is afoot. :whisper:

I have a better question for you Styles.

If the entrance to Vault 87 was hit by an atomic bomb rendering its entrance unusable, and the Lamplighters defend that pathway out through the cave. How do they get out? :spotted owl:

Well the Brotherhood of Steel started in California just after the great war. They have stayed in the West for along time only the MWBoS have left and they went to Chicago. FO3 has BoS going all the way to DC. Super Mutants in FO3 are not the same as FO1 and FO2. Super Mutants back West are smarter and in much larger numbers. New Vegas lets us know that the BoS are decreasing in numbers.

True reports don't have to come from scouts but I doubt the BoS would sent troops 2000 plus miles east on wasteland Scuttlebutt about stupid mutants in DC that would have taken years to make it back to California.



Super mutants can survive radiation I am not sure if the vault door was busted or not. If it was thats a great question. Another question is Why would the mutants be afaid of a group of kids?

And how did the Enclave get IN?

Edit: In terms of getting out -- they're caves. Just because the Lamplight brats only knew of 2 possible ways to get in doesn't mean there weren't more.

You guys are a tough crowd

Caves that we can't find in the game. Not a tough crowd just ones that want are canon to make sense. FO3 has more holes then Swiss Cheese and New Vegas just adds more you can't blamb Obsidian because Beth okayed everything.

Don't you know Styles? Kids acquired this weird mutation that makes them invulnerable. I'd be terrified of them too. The Brotherhood should just give that little Maxson twerp a gun and tell him to storm the purifier. Better than Liberty Prime. :whistling:

:rofl: Out of all the locations in FO3 Lamplight was the dumbest one. Should be a quest to get Maxion to lead a childrens crusade to free the DC wasteland.

Children running the God Mode script? I smell D.C.s new Army. Pay the brats in candy bars and kicks to the jaw.

I'm still wondering where the children come from :confused:

Out of all the holes, that one bothered me the most. It is mysteriously "never resolved". The only thing I could imagine was that a lot of kids end up orphaned in the Wastes, and since the brats send out recon and supply parties, they just recruit the new kids that way.

See, gentlemen, sometimes you just gotta use your imagination...

But, I'm a Final Fantasy fan and am used to being totally confused by what passes as story line. Tidus DOESN'T EXIST?! REALLY???

On the subject of Vault 87 I don't think the vault door was broken, People just can't go in and out that way because there's so much radiation outside. I was able to open the vault door before from inside the vault (After I was knocked out in the story line the door to the entrance chamber was open) But I'm not sure if this is supposed to happen or not, Maybe it was overlooked and was patched later? Anyway, How did the Enclave get in? Probably through the front door only I expect they have something that wards off radiation like crazy or removes it from a person's bloodstream super fast. I expect that super mutants go in and out the front door too. What I want to know is how do the super mutants get people inside the vault without them dying from the radiation, Do they put them in boxes that are radiation proof and then carry them in?

People on the east coast talk to neighbours who are further west, who talk to people who live more west than them. Rumour floats between each town in wastes until eventually it makes its way across the continent to Brotherhood Grocery people like Veronica who tell the Brotherhood about Mutant sightings on the west coast.

Then they get the bright idea to send a bunch of people north and then east to avoid the Legion, or if they are not around yet they just go straight east. They find weapons food and armor along the way and get T-45d at the Pentagon and other government installations along the way. After all they did have 23 years to cross the continent.

According to canon -- or rather, terminal entries I read off of The Vault -- the Overseer ordered the main door sealed completely because of the nuclear bomb going off right outside the door, and their inability to keep the radiation levels from becoming too high within the vault itself. Also, the Enclave does apparently have a way to make a person immune to extremely high radiation...it happens in the part of the main quest (if you follow it task by task) before you end up going to 87.

I just feel like in some ways, y'all are thinking too hard about things. Somehow the kids have managed to survive this long in their little caves, and yet they do go outside for supplies and so on. I don't doubt that the Super Mutants pass through -- if my untested theory of additional, but inaccessible exits is untrue -- but the kids are probably good at getting rid of them, or simply hiding/evacuating. It has to keep some properties of being a video game. how do you have to either find a key, or lockpick a door, very carefully to get in...and find the bad guys are hanging out in there? How did they get in? Why didn't they leave? Why don't they just die from starvation because they've been locked in?? Why would Vault 101 have radroaches anyways, if it's been sealed forever and ever??

I agree that holes in the canon are obnoxious. I'm not trying to go off topic, but I also think it's okay to just accept things the way they are, sometimes -- not necessarily about the BoS, but maybe about the mechanics of why there are Super Mutants in vault 87

Edited for clarity.

My thoughts with the children was that the super mutants let them stay, purely because a) they couldn't care less about them or b) that the children are too young to be dipped in the vats.

At what point did they get the T-45d? Because Ashur has one. They are even contradicting their own canon in this case.

Perhaps they had already established their base in D.C. and then sent men to Pittsbourgh to check if Tech was available.