Leandro Conde has written a great tutorial about how to clean mods using TES4Edit and put it on the http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit/Mod_cleaning_tutorial_with_TES4Edit. The same process and the need for doing this applies to Fallout3 and FO3Edit as well.

Highly recommended reading for anyone not yet familiar with the process.

Any mod author releasing a mod for FO3 should follow these steps before release. That will greatly reduce the possibility of conflicts between mods.

I had to upload 2.1.2 to fix a couple of problems:

• Check For Error could return a faulty error for deleted records
  
• INFO records might fail to load because of an unexpected TPIC subrecord
  
• Portal Marker REFR records might fail to load because of an unexpected XPTL subrecord
  
• Check For Error could return a faulty error for MGEF records of Archtype Bound Item or Summon Creature

What is Fallout3.Hardcoded.esp?

This file needs to remain with the .exe. Do not place it in your DATA folder.

It contains some records which are hardcoded in GECK and the game engine (not contained in Fallout3.esm) but referenced from records in Fallout3.esm. PlaneMarker and PortalMarker STAT records to name just one example.

If FO3Edit finds this file in it's own directory it will load it it automatically at the same load order index as Fallout3.esm which will inject these hardcoded records into Fallout3.esm

Version 2.1.3 which I've just uploaded to http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=637 fixes a problem with changing the persistent and visible when distant flags on References in interior Cells.

I get this error when I try and apply a filter with only "Conflict Status Inherited By Parent" checked.

"Assertion failure (P:\TES4Workbench\frmViewMain.pas, line 4239)"

This is what the messages window displays:

Error: record CONT contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord CNTOErrors were found in: VendorChestBuriedMoiraBrown [CONT:000B41EC]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND MODL MODT CNTO CNTO CNTO CNTO DATA CNTO Error: record DIAL contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord QSTR 52545351Errors were found in: FollowerRK5Purchase2B "FollowerRK5Purchase2B" [DIAL:000943E4]Contained subrecords: EDID QSTR FULL PNAM DATA Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: ArmorPowerT51bHelmet "T-51b Power Helmet" [ARMO:000A6F78]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: ArmorPowerT51b "T-51b Power Armor" [ARMO:000A6F77]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL SCRI EITM BMDT MODL MODT MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO BMCT REPL BIPL ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: OutfitTenpenny "Tenpenny's Suit" [ARMO:00096CB7]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MOD2 MO2T ICON MOD3 MO3T MOD4 MO4T ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: MS15ButtonsWig "Button's Wig" [ARMO:0008A6DD]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: MS03StealthHat "Shady Hat" [ARMO:0007C17D]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: OutfitColonelAutumn "Colonel Autumn's Uniform" [ARMO:0005157E]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO MOD3 MO3T BIPL ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: MS06LincolnsHat "Lincoln's Hat" [ARMO:0004445B]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL SCRI EITM BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: OutfitEulogyJonesHat "Eulogy Jones' Hat" [ARMO:00034126]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: OutfitEulogyJones "Eulogy Jones' Suit" [ARMO:00034125]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO MOD3 MO3T MOSD MOD4 MO4T ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: MS02SuitHelmetMechanist "The Mechanist's Helmet" [ARMO:00034120]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO REPL ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: MS02SuitHelmetAntagonizer "The AntAgonizer's Helmet" [ARMO:0003411F]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON REPL ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: MS02SuitMechanist "The Mechanist's Costume" [ARMO:0003411E]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO MOD3 MO3T REPL BIPL ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: MS02SuitAntagonizer "The AntAgonizer's Costume" [ARMO:0003411D]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO MOD3 MO3T MOSD MOD4 MO4T REPL BIPL ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: OutfitLucasSimmsHat "Sheriff's Hat" [ARMO:0002DD80]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON ETYP DATA DNAM REPL Error: record ARMO contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord REPLErrors were found in: OutfitLucasSimms "Sheriff's Duster" [ARMO:00020429]Contained subrecords: EDID OBND FULL EITM BMDT MODL MODT MODD MOD2 MO2T ICON MICO MOD3 MO3T MOSD BIPL ETYP YNAM ZNAM DATA DNAM REPL Error: record DIAL contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord QSTR 52545351Error: record DIAL contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord QSTIError: record DIAL contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord QSTIError: record DIAL contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord QSTIError: record DIAL contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord FULLError: record DIAL contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord PNAMError: record DIAL contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord DATAErrors were found in: RadioGoodbye [DIAL:00019A09]Contained subrecords: EDID QSTI QSTI QSTI QSTR QSTI QSTI QSTI FULL PNAM DATA 

I'm willing to bet that this file was not created by GECK or FO3Edit but hacked together with FOMM or even a hex editor by someone who doesn't fully understand the FO3 module file format.

While game engine and GECK are probably loading that file without complaining, there are most likely going to be subtle problems where it's misbehaving.

You can try loading the file in GECK and saving it again which should result in a valid file. But it's very likely the resulting file will be different then what the original author intended.

Will do.

That would be bad, right? Which would mean I messed up again. Meaning... Reinstall time?

No no. That's prefect. Just as it should be. The Fallout3.Hardcoded.esp must be in the same folder as the FO3Edit.exe and NOT in the Data folder. The game engine or GECK will never see that file and never load it.

When you start GECK without loading Fallout3.esm, you can see that there are some records already defined. The reason is that these records are hardcoded in the exe already. Some of these records are overriden in Fallout3.esm. Some others are not. But Fallout3.esm contains records with references to some of these hardcoded records that are not being overriden.

If you now load Fallout3.esm alone in FO3Edit, which doesn't have these "hardcoded" records in the exe itself like GECK. Then it appears as if Fallout3.esm contains a lot of invalid references. This is where Fallout3.Hardcoded.esp comes in. It contains all the hardcoded records which are not overriden in Fallout3.esm already. By loading this esp at the same load order ID as Fallout3.esm it is as if these records were defined in Fallout3.esm.

Basically you don't have to think about it at all. Make sure Fallout3.Hardcoded.esp is in the same folder as FO3Edit and then forget about it.

So, keeping the hardcoded and the exe outside of the data folder is a good idea then. Oh wait, I read that wrong. I had mine IN the data folder with the exe. Which couldn't have causes any issues, it's just the stuff that is hardcoded into fo3, and if that somehow merged with the fallout3.esm file, that would be fine.
Darn, still have to keep looking for the root of my respawn issue.

FO3Edit will never ever write any changes into Fallout3.esm.

If you DO end up loading Fallout3.Hardcoded.esp into the game engine, nothing bad will happen because the GAME ENGINE will just load it as a normal plugin in it's own load order slot and the esp has been on purpose created so that it does NOT have Fallout3.esm in it's master list. So all this would do is define a couple of records that will never have any effect whatsoever on your game.

Where can i ask question about functionality in FO3Edit?

Is there a special forum for FO3Edit?

Right here looks good... ask away....

So I see FO3Edit sets deleted objects to initially disabled instead, one little scenario that needs to be taken into account... if a none persistant creature is set to initially disabled (thats if you're editing one from Fallout.esm of course) it has the potential to crash the game on saving the game\going through a load door, it can be fixed by setting the creature to persistant along with initially disabled.

Interresting. That's the first I heard about this.

FO3Edit (and TES4Edit) actually specifically set all such auto-undeleted objects to temporary to prevent the problem that the disabled flag and the position can already be stored in an existing savegame. (Can mostly be seen with doors that have already been visited. They are persistent objects because they have to be referenced from outside the cell. But if they have already been visited then setting them to initially disabled and changing their position has no effect because that information now comes out of the savegame. Only by setting them to temporary does the game engine ignore the save game and fall back to the values from the module file).

Excuse me, but I need a slightly modified version of the FO3Edit if that is possible... Unlike most people, I have my game in a different hard-drive, so instead of the program searching for my game like this:
"Using Fallout3 Data Path: C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Fallout 3\Data\"
I need it to search for the files over here:
"Using Fallout3 Data Path: G:\Bethesda Softworks\Fallout 3\Data\"
If you could possibly make an alternate program for me, I'd be very grateful. =3

That or teach me how to set a new pathway for your program... I don't really know how I could do that though without an installation file or a notepad... x.x;

FO3Edit does not look for the program in a fixed location. It looks up the path that was written into the registry when you installed Fallout3.

The only reason why FO3Edit would look in the "wrong" location is because you installed Fallout3 in one location and then just moved the files to somewhere else.

Howdo....
I posted the following on Nexus.....

For some odd reason FO3Edit will now only display 36 mods once its fully "fired up" altough initially it lists all the mods I've got installed....I've always before found it to be an excellent and very usfull and user friendly utility....I upgraded to the latest version but the problem persists...which of course makes seeking full item codes etc a pain or impossible.....I assume that somehow I set something wrong but for the life of me can't find anything in the interface that I could have accidentally fiddled with to cause this....

Which is essentially "IT" in a nutshell....somehow I've done something weird or dumb and now only 36 mods show....Its doubly odd since, you know at various points I had much more than 36 showing I'm sure, so I'm totally at a loss as to why its defaulting to this number.

edit
Hmm, very weird....an otherwise innocent esp designed to work with Robco Certified and "dependant" upon it in some manner got out of load order somehow and was terminating the background loading business prematurely.....and the number of the beast was, you guessed it, 36! so all is well that ends well I guess....my apologies for false alarms and sillyness.

Version 2.2.0 has been uploaded to http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=637.

This version contains no major new functionality, but a number of bugfixes. Update is highly recommended.

Just want to say THANKS for your great work.

Thanks a bunch! Anchorage.esm and a few other plugings no longer get the "out of order or unexpected" error messages. At first, I thought I'd broken something using ver.2.1.3.

I'm sure I'm crazy for it, but tinkering with plugins using FO3Edit/TES4Edit is almost as much fun as playing the games themselves. Huzzah for the "funky" colors!

In a number of ways, I find your editors more useful than even the GECK/TES4 CS. I've been daisy chaining masters in file headers like crazy with them and merging (copying as overrides) all the way up anything and everything into BORG.ESM files which has eliminated countless conflicts, allowed otherwise conflicting mods to ALL do what they're designed to do, and I swear both games load faster and hardly ever crash.

have the same situation to whitedragon in that i have moved my files, so is there a way to change where the programme looks?

▼Reinstall Fallout to that location rather than just moving the files.▼

Update your registry to correctly reference the new location.

Version 2.2.3 has just been uploaded to http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=637.

What's new?

• Game Settings (GMST) will now be properly resolved based on EditorID, not FormID.
  
• Navigation Mesh Info Map (NAVI) will no longer be compared between different modules. While this record has always the same FormID in all modules, it is not actually handled by the engine in the same way as normal records. Instead it contains information that are always only specific to the file that contains it.
  
• Navigation Mesh (NAVM) records that are logically identical but physically different are now easier to recognize.

That last point about the NAVMs requires some explanation.

A NAVM record starts off with a list of Vertices. Each Vertex being a 3D point (x/y/z). An identifier for each vertex is implicitly given by it's position in this list of verticies.

This is followed by a list of triangles. Again, an identifier for each triangle is implicitly given by it's position in this list of triangles.

For each triangle there are 3 verticies, specified by their position in the vertex list. And there are 3 triangles which touch this triangle along the 3 edges, specified by their position in the triangle list.

The edges are a bit more complex because it is possible that a triangle borders a triangle that is defined in another NAVM. To support this there are 3 flags on each triangle (for the 3 edges) which specify if the triangle on that edge is an external connection. If this flag is set, then the number stored for that edge is NOT an index into the triangle list, instead it's an index into the "External Connections" list.

Each entry in the External Connections list contains the FormID of another NAVM and the index for a triangle in the triangle list of that other NAVM.

GECK has the annoying habit of switching around the order of the entries in this External Connections list. As a result it is possible to have 2 versions of the same NAVM record that "look" different (the External Connections will not match up and the triangles with the index into the external connections list will not match up) but are actually identical.

I've implemented 2 changes:

• When comparing the values for triangle edges which have the "external" flag set, I don't compare the index number, instead the external connection entry is resolved using the index number and the NAVM FormID and the Triangle from that entry are compared. So even if the index numbers in the external connection list have changed, as long as they resolve to the same external triangle they will show up as identical.
  
• The complete external connections list has been marked as being "benign conflicts". This is not a problem if there are REAL relevant changes to this list because they will also show up in the triangles list where the relevant edges will now compare as a conflict or override.

With these changes in place it is now possible to find these NAVMs that are identical but not automatically found using the 'Remove "Identical to Master" Records' function by applying a filter and choosing "by conflict status overall" and only "Benign Conflict". It is still necessary to have a look at these records and make sure that they really fit this pattern (the only parts of these records that show up yellow should be the external connections) before deleting them manually. But it's a lot easier to find them now then it was before.

It's important to point out here that the interaction between the NAVMs and the NAVI record is so far poorly understood and I can't guarantee that removing NAVM records while leaving the NAVI record untouched is not going to cause problems. Any feedback/experience on this topic would be very welcome.