For god sake,please give us more intelligent,believable NPCs

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:54 pm

It's no great secret that in every game we've had in the past from bethesda game studios the AI has been at best completely terrible. From 'must have been the wind' to 'blah blah blah, bleed to death, you're [censored], I'm great, what's this; I'm dead?' and we've had characters who just... don't feel like people. as if they've somehow decided upon the most perfectly worst place in the uncanny valley to sit on.

That thing with the companions. Y'know where the player tells the dog to get a wrench and the dog does that? Have something like that happen to companions. You yourself can't hack a computer? Get your friend to do it. Can't unlock/lock/knock down a door? Have your friend do it. Can't suave your way past a person? Have your friend do it. Ideally, companions should often be able to make up for the player's weaknesses. For more added fun, have these characters sometimes do [censored] that you didn't tell them to... It could be something useful like taking a hostage when you need one, or pulling you out the way of a tripmine the player didn't see... or it could be something detrimental; like stealing something valuable and putting it in your bag, or killing a character you're talking to, or insulting a tribal chief while you're completely at his mercy. Edit: This really depends on what companion you get though, and how happy they are with you

Ideally, characters should be intellegent enough that they don't need to be invulnerable to not die stupidly. The first step of combat is to not have characters charge forward like idiots when they see an enemy. A melee character who sees the player with a gun should, if not confident in their ability to smack the player before being shot, either look for a different path to get to the player, or run and hide for an ambush. Ambush ambush ambush. (though if intellegence is really low, and drugs are really high, maybe charging forth into bullet is the best way to go) Clogging the player around the head when they pass through doors for example, or dropping a grenade and running out of a room are good examples of this. (just never force a head clogging on the player if the player/character is wise enough to spot one.

Ideally, an npc should actualy be able to gage the threat of the enemy. one man with a stick? call to his friends and attack. A pair of power armoured, plasma wielding death machines? Run to friends, consider organising attack, possibly run away.

What should be fun, is if we had panic (you know, how in arkham those with guns would become erratic, move around a lot, fire at places they think batman could be) Outright running for their lives, and surrender. Not the silly skyrim surrender, an actual throw down of the weapon and submisiveness (though they could try to kill you when you're not looking)

But we also need more civilian stuff. They need to move around like real people. slouch on chairs and lean on tables. Play pool, cards, mutant cockfights. Consume jet. Drink as they move around the wasteland. Find a small corner to huddle in when they find themselves in the ruins of the old world. Hide underneath beds and tables, Knock over beds and tables for cover. Even things like knocking on someone's door and having that person open the door for them. But it's the small things that matter too. A wastelander is going to walk differently than a socialite. The way he moves will be different. Similarly a military veteran is going to hold his gun differently than a noob who's never carried one or an action movie fan, and a drunk is going to drink differently compared to when he was sober.

TL;DR

Add some human to human characters.

Also, dogs, and all variations of either of these creatures.

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Rhiannon Jones
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:26 pm

You can order companion NPCs to do stuff like take items and open locks for you in Skyrim.

Most of your suggestions however render your own skills worthless by allowing you to just get a companion to do it for you, which largely negates the whole RPG aspect of the game.

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Racheal Robertson
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:08 pm

Like stated above having your companion able to do everything for you ruins the point of having skills. But if instead the companion was good at certain things that you could have them do (A smart companion who is good with terminals has an ability to hack terminals that are too hard for PC for example) that would be interesting. Of course it would need to be balanced well also.

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Shelby Huffman
 
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Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:26 am

I would like to see some of this, but I don't think having your companions get you in trouble randomly is a good idea. Ever. I don't want to constantly have to worry if my companion is going to steal something I didn't tell him to or do something stupid. In situations where it was appropriate like if you companion hated someone and REALLY wanted to kill him, but still should need your permission.

I could do with some REAL radiant AI, like they wanted to add in Oblivion. Tech issues are the reason they couldn't do it like they wanted. Also some gameplay issues. I would love to see someone buy a drink at a bar. Then the barman uses it to buy more beer. And so and so forth. Perhaps player actions dictate certain things like how many customers they get or perhaps you could let someone open a bar in your settlement, etc. I just want it all to be connected like a real community ecosystem.

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CArlos BArrera
 
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Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:40 am

I feel that the NPCs forgetting that they heard something is a must have.

I would be more annoyed with having to reload a quicksave every time I make a mistake. They have to return to their positions and become unaware so that I can try again without me having to load a quicksave.

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Tamara Primo
 
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Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:54 am

Wow, some of the stuff mentioned in the op seems a little beyond our current generation of games. Pulling you back from stepping on a mine?
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I love YOu
 
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Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:49 am

Early on at least, you will need companions with different skills sets to complement your own depending on the mission.

And using different companions will open you up for their quests and backgrounds.

Certainly I hope the companions have several quests related to them.

That they don't start instantly trusting you with their lives and everything they own.

That they have issues and goals that the Sole Survivor can help them with and learn more about them and their world.

As far as combat AI, totally agree about the charging forward.

I want to be able to command Dogmeat to watch my six and warn me if someone is sneaking up on me rather than running in front of me and blocking my shot.

Or have a companion back me up but not run forward in to my field of fire.

Also guy in power armor and mini gun should rate as a much higher threat then a dog even if he is trying to chew on your leg.

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Mandy Muir
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:43 pm

It sounds like you want SW:KOTOR either I or II style character and companion management.

KOTOR management of companions would be nice; micromanage their levelling, skills, specializations, etc., and even control them.

I don't know how well a KOTOR companion management style would translate in a Bethesda game however.

Actually controlling the companion would likely break game immersion at the cost of convenience. Working out how to communicate what might seem simple to a companion from player character perspective would maintain immersion, but, likely feel clunky, like trying to command a door nob to make toast.

The KOTOR companion management system, however, was nice, and, it worked.

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Schel[Anne]FTL
 
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Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:11 am

It would be nice to be able to decide what clothes they wear or what weapon they use once you had built up enough trust.

As far as micromanaging their advancement, no thank you.

It would be really nice if you could choose a perk for them every couple of levels.

They could be a small group of perks specially created for them defining what they were specializing in.

That way you couldn't pick any perks out of character for them (and the developers know what to expect).

Dragonfall (Shadowrun Returns) had a nice system with you could pick from two sets of individual skills for each of your companions say between being a better sniper and being better at shotguns for up close.

The Decker had two totally different sets dealing with Hacking and his SMG in case he got in trouble in the meat world.

That let you customize your companions to better work with your PC.

Make a good mod if it isn't already included in F4.

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Latisha Fry
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:56 pm


I'd just be happy if we can take their default equipment from them after we kit them out ourselves. It was stupid in Skyrim that default armor would vanish from the NPCs body and inventory but yet still take up weight on the character.
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Matthew Barrows
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:56 pm

Regarding companions having utility skills, I am not sure the feature sit well with design of Fallout games. Fallout's companions (or NPCs) have always been stripped-down versions of player character abililtes-wise. It can be said that Fallout series is PC-centric instead of party-centric like games derived from D&D. Although Fallout series has not allowed companions to have non-combat abilities, it has often provided us with multiple ways to solve a problem such as combat, stealth or sometimes diplomacy. It encouraged us to do multiple play-throughs using PCs with different skill sets.

As for enhancement of combat AI, I am all for it. At least if player is in stealth mode and as long as stealth is maintained, your companions should never charge headlong into enemies.

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Claire Vaux
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:30 pm

Well if they really have split the Science skill in to Science Perks and Hacker Perks, I could see needing to bring a companion along to cover one or the other.

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Trent Theriot
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:51 pm

Yeah, I already avoid companions like the plague in these games because they're constantly underfoot / messing up. If they had a chance of deliberately sabotaging you at random times? Might as well just put a giant neon "Never Use Me" sign on all of them.

edit: needless to say, I preferred FO3's companions to FO:NV's.... because with FO3's, I wasn't missing out on a bunch of quests by not using them. :tongue:

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Miragel Ginza
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:29 pm

The Willow companion mod was a treat to use.

So it gives me hope that Bethesda could make the companions a lot better.

Have to wait and see just how much.

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amhain
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:00 pm

I'm always going solo too, since I usually play a really slow, very thorough, sneaky character, so, a poor AI on companions doesn't really effect me much, unless I try to use one.

At most, I'll sometimes try to use companions as pack animals, but, even then, even when I command them to be as passive and out of my way as possible, they still manage to get in the way, and get spotted, or trip a trap.

On the other hand, I somewhat like the idea of a somewhat annoying, unreliable, mostly useless, but entertaining companion that wanders off, gets lost, gets into trouble, and sometimes finds things that I might not ever have come across, even when I'm poking at every rock, log, suspicious lump of sand, or curious bits of geology, something like that annoying but incredibly cute robot child Pino in the anime Ergo Proxy.

I suppose if the companions were at least more entertaining, that could make up for their lack of anything going on upstairs.

Consider this; tell a companion to stay in one place, but ... when you come back, it turns out they wandered off, got drunk, got in a bar fight, and now need you to bail them out of jail, or pay a hospital bill, pay a gambling debt, or a bill wracked up with a pimp, or they woke up in an ice bath with a missing kidney and/or other body parts, and now it's up to you to find the organ thief ... or, they got kidnapped and are being held for ransom and you have to pay up, or go rescue them ....

all scenarios which could lead a player character into areas and talk to NPCs that could generate other side quests, and/or result in a player character finding things and getting into situations of opportunity.

At least then, a companion's uselessness could serve a purpose as a device that drives side quests, and, as entertainment for all the horrible things that happen to them when your back's turned that you have a choice in sorting out, or ignoring for whatever, or no reason at all.

:smile:

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scorpion972
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:58 pm

The part about judging whether to attack and how to do it is what I want to see the most. Really bugs me when I have a random raider run out of the wasteland to swing at my power armor with a pool cue. I mean, how stupid can you get?

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Bethany Short
 
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Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:40 am

The companions in FO1 and 2 actually did have non-combat skills (Vic in FO2, for example, was a tech wiz), it's just that usually the player-character tended to be given those skills since there was often no way to know ahead of time whether or not you would have the appropriate NPC in your party.

To be fair, they're not exactly the brightest bulbs in the lamp to begin with. Add the random intake of drugs, and they might well indeed think that charging that walking tank was a good idea.

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Hayley O'Gara
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:51 pm

I'll be happy if we even just get NPC's who don't keep bumping into furniture again and again and again..........................................and again when they could have stepped only half a foot to the side and cleared it the first time.

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Anthony Rand
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:58 pm

I might have to disagree. The AI does feel clunky but given the variables, pathing, and complicated environment, I can easily forgive some jerky and sometimes hilarious AI hijinks.

In most games I've played, the way to generate more 'intelligent' believable AI is to restrict its interaction with the environment. This usually means a much more linear experience given the budget and technical limitations presented even by the new generation. I will gladly forgive some sometimes even irritating issues with companion or NPC behavior to have a much more free world to interact with.

Just my experience.
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Carlos Vazquez
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:11 pm

Btw OP, your ideas make perfect sense, but with where the gaming tech is today, some of your ideas are incredibly complex when introduced into an open world.

Someday man, someday!
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Katharine Newton
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:03 pm

3+ years of mod making in these games and you might start to think differently.

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Karl harris
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:55 pm


True, true, but that's I feel the progress towards what the OP speaks of, those of us peasants stuck on consoles only get to watch the pc guys see small glimpses into the future. I'm super excited for the mod potential with the next fallout!
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DAVId MArtInez
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:45 pm

Oh I totally agree on traps.

If the PC gets within 3 feet of a trap without setting it off then the companion shouldn't be able to set it off.

I mean I assume the PC would tell the companion "Don't set off this pressure plate, it is connected to two shotguns."

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Kay O'Hara
 
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Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:58 am

Well I just hope for FO4 they don't use the method they have up untill now to check actor pathing and collision.......a [censored]ing box!

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Loane
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:21 pm

Yeah. I'll second that.

It would be nice to have the occasional raider or animal away if they they are losing badly.

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Breautiful
 
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