But, by Nordic rights Ulfric is so proud of, she has every right to sit on the Throne.

Is this really a civil war? The Imperials invaded, the homelanders are defending. This is outright war. If the Empire was already there when the Nords attempt to settle the land, then it would be the Nords invading. A Civil War is between two sides that were once united, these two sides were never united. It can be likened to the ancient Romans invading Bavaria (like they did) and the German tribes defended their homeland plain and simple.

Oh and the Germans did not take too kindly to an attempt to be annexed into the Roman republic (at the time, Julius Caesar invaded the German lands when Rome was still a republic, not an empire), and therefore decided to take down Rome, of which they did after hundreds of years of the same war of attrition.

Yes, it is a civil war. Skyrim was always in the Empire.

No she doesn't. Not until its declared at a moot, which of course thanks to the cw doesn't mean much anymore no matter who wins. But if the cw didn't start, Ulfric likely would have won the moot because 1, they know he'd just challenge her to a duel later if he didn't, and 2, she's...well. Ulfric kiling Torygg basically made him a default winner, especially since its implied he had supporters before he killed Torygg.

I meant as a Jarl.

Though, speaking of the Snow Throne.

Yes, he would have likely won. But she still has legitimate claim to the Snow Throne. And the Jarls would have sided with her. Which is why Ulfric starts the Civil war so he can replace those Imperial loyalists with his lackeys.

Honestly I'm not so sure that she'd have as many supporters as she did if the Empire didn't get involved, but yes, as Jarl she sadly has legitimate claim.

These two sides were never united, it is not a civil war, it is an invasion. The Imperials invaded Skyrim.

Skyrim has always served as the strong-arm of the Cyrodiliic Empire's since Alessia's revolt over 3000 years ago.

Wrong. Skyrim was part of the Septim Empire for hundreds of years before it fell and it was ruled by Ocato for a bit and then Titus Mede took over. Skyrim was always a willing participant.

It was not an invasion. It's a rebellion. The Stormcloaks are trying to secede.

The Nords were never a willing participant as is written throughout the lore in Skyrim, it's an invasion. That's the very definition of "empire," an entity whose sole purpose is to invade and subjugate and annex into their own pool. Doesn't matter how long the process takes. Just as the Germans fought back against the Romans, the Stormcloaks are fighting back and attempting to push them back out, just as the Germans did to the Romans which took several hundreds of years. This is the same situation, therefore not a civil war. The German tribes continually fought against each other, that is civil war. I think you better look at the definition of civil war.

I think you better look at lore. The Empire has never waltzed up to Skyrim and forced them to join. Ever.

Skyrim has been a part of the Alessian Empire, Reman Dynasty, Septim Empire and Mede Empire. Nobody has invaded and conquered Skyrim in its history. This isn't Rome and the Germans. This is Cyrodiil and Skyrim.

You just went full potato.

Wow, you're really lost on the lore.

No? She betrayed her land completely. She didn't give one single [censored] about her people being torture-murdered.

Yes, yes. Warmongering Nords who worship a warmonger are being interrogated.

It's still does not change the fact that Skyrim is seceding, not defending from some invasionary force.

Are you implying that Skyrim won't defend itself? Are you implying that the Empire isn't an invasionary force right now, one bent on breaking Nords into Imperial 2.0 mindless drones whose only role in existence is to die for the Empire?

You can coat it however you want.

Skyrim was a part of the Empire in the old days. It remained with the Mede Empire. And half of Skyrim is still loyal to the Empire.

It's a civil war.

Cause there is no right side and the empire is not invading >_>.

How can anyone think this is an invasion? Its a civil war.

I think he's quite clearly implying that Skyrim was always a part of the Empire, which is correct.

It's been a part of the Empire for as long as there has been one, yes. But it's also been just Skyrim, too.

The Empire failed. It refuses to protect its people. It takes and doesn't give. I'd be tired of giving, personally.

I think it's less to do with people actually thinking the Empire is invading, and more to do with the fact that invading/invasion is a better buzzword for pro-Stormcloak propaganda.

What do you think it is?

Tullius is establishing a hostile Imperial force.

Those who peacefull disagree are kidnapped and given to the Thalmor to be tortured until dead, or are beheaded.

Those who disagree not so peacefully are killed in their homeland for defending it from the aforementioned.