For the first time, I'm undecided on the CW issue. : V - Skyrim

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:07 am

:violin:

Spoiler

It's still a civil war.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:58 am

I still think its a civil war you can think its an invasion all you want. Everyone in the game calls it the civil war and the events happening fits the term of civil war but hey you can keep thinking its an invasion I don't really care.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:21 am

I still don't understand why people take such strong positions either way. There are pros and cons to each side. Whenever I join a side in the game I do so reluctantly. Neither side is a great option.

In fact, I think it's wholly juvenile the way many people support their side on forum. They regurgitate everything a pro-Empire or pro-Stormcloak NPC in the game has to say while failing to grasp that the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. I can respect simply thinking one perspective is more beneficial. However, the people treating this as bad vs good are asinine and naive.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:30 am

Yup after reading that lore link about altmer history that Hev gave me there is no good side in this conflict.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:04 am

It seems the Jarl of Riften has taken to locking away http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Threki_the_Innocent who disagree with Ulfric, and her son wants to execute his own brother for the same "crime."

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:20 pm

Impossible. Stormcloaks are benevolent, and will welcome peaceful discussion at the moot when Ulfric arrives with his 500 Stormcloaks.

Which of course is not needed since he replaces all the Imperial sympathetic Jarls with his lackeys.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:41 am

Wow I did not know about the person in jail.

Just goes to show again there is no right side in this conflict.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:29 am

Threki the Innocent is a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Nord http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:CombatThief imprisoned in http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Riften_Jail.

Threki the Innocent is a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Nord http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:CombatThief

If spoken to, she claims she is innocent and blames the corrupt nature of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Riften for her sentence

Shock and awe. A thief is in prison and swears innocence. Oh, well if a thief says it it must be true.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:10 pm

Her NPC class is Thief

Ysgramor's class is Citizen. So obviously, Ysgramor is just a citizen.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:17 am

Funny how the same situation is repeated with Laila's son, isn't it? There's already precedent set for it.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:56 am

And Farkas is labeled as a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Farkas in the game's code.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:58 am

I completely agree with you, its simply a case of which side you see as the best of two evils. Neither side is 100% good, they're arguably just as bad as each other, it's understandable to think one side is better than the other, that's human nature but supporting one side completely in everything they do is just blind ignorance.

I usually side with the Empire simply because that was the first choice I made so I stuck with it through all my play-throughs, I recently created a new character that I plan on putting a lot of time into, I think I'll go with the Stormcloacks this time just to switch things up a little.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:21 pm

The large, underlined text doesn't do you any favours.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:38 am

Aela the Huntress also is under the Thief class. I guess she's a thief.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:06 pm

Neither does misrepresenting my argument with something you filled in yourself. A tad ironic given you were assaulting the fans of either side about being mature.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:48 am

It's called paraphrasing.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:50 pm

Also, Septimus Signus is a warrior.

Erikur is a warrior too.

And Titus Mede II is an Assassin.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:46 am

http://gifrific.com/cheryl-tunt-saying-mind-blown-archer/

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:42 am

Siddgeir is a pawnbroker. Who knew.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:29 am

Even assuming she isn't a thief (lol) she's being imprisoned because it's a time of war. She isn't being tortured. She isn't being killed.

Actually at second thought I'm extremely pleased you brought this up to me, seeing as you were so gung ho that the Stormcloaks torture their prisoners just like the Empire and Thalmor do. Now we have clear cut evidence to the contrary.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:32 am

I was "gung ho" about that? I remember not discounting the possibility, as there's a lot in "real" Skyrim that we don't see in the game, but I'm not sure if that qualifies as "gung ho." Maybe I was, it's been a while since I've ever discussed it.

Spoiler

But considering the Silver Bloods are Stormcloak sympathizers (and become full members of the Stormcloak regime if Ulfric wins), who throw their political enemies into their mines/prison to enslave and work them to death, I'd say that would qualify as evidence that they do torture them. And before you say that happens under Imperial rule in Markarth, let me stop you. You're right, it does, but under Silverblood orders, and if you wait till they're in charge of Markarth, Stormcloak Soldiers themselves will carry it out. Not saying that this makes Imperials better than the Stormcloaks or anything like that. Just saying that they both seem to be guilty of crimes you're throwing out there.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:18 pm

The Silverbloods aren't an accurate representation of the Stormcloaks because they're in power for both sides. Only one of them seems to have any measure of moral fiber and even that's lacking. Some people are just rotten. Baldy Silverblood is one of the aforementioned.

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:57 am

Actually, the Nords invaded Cyrodiil at the start of the Empire after they joined Tiber Septim and forced the province to unite under his banner. Skyrim itself has been invaded 3 times; by the Atmorans led by Ysgrammor, by the Tsaeci and by the Kamal. Never by the Imperials. Even the War of the Red Diamond was not won by an invasion of Skyrim, but because Potema lost her support among the Nords which allowed the Legion to corner her in Solitude.

As best I can tell it, the Imperials are the dominant culture of the Empire because of the simple fact that the Imperial City and the Dragonfires were located in their homeland, not because they forged the Empire. The Nords began that process, invading Cyrodiil in the process.

I disagree in this way: Both sides probably have their heart in the right place, but with the decline of the Empire over the last 200 years, the WGC and with the

Spoiler

assassination of the Emperor at the behest of a member of the Elder Council,

I just can't see how these are two sides of the same coin. The Empire have some pretty awful things to deal with. Playing everything we can on that hand just seems like a bad decision, because the whole "unite for the greater good" argument is largely invalidated by the spoiler. Too much can go wrong with that.

» Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:20 pm

I don't think 11/11/11 excuses this, it's a fairly glaring distinction if you ask me. Rikke is cool, and Brina Merilis too (if you count her as a Legionary) but with the Stormcloaks you actually see and fight alongside female soldiers, guards too. For me that's a pretty compelling difference.

But still. I really like the Imperial characters, some of the Jarls, and notion of a straight-laced professional army. But then on the other hand, there is the romance of peasants turned idealistic warriors, and Vignar Greymane trumps Balgruuf any day.

What to do?

» Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:15 am

Meh, kill them all and let the Daedric Princes and other divines sort them out!