I actually have to agree with Munx and Ethiir.

Have you guys been on the receiving end of this? I have... it was pathetic and I did feel like I was playing a crappy unbalanced game.

4 snipers can completely stop the other team from leaving the spawn. No if ands or buts about it. Now this might be able to be dealt with in match play or in organized team play. But pubbing? Once this becomes common practice there is no way for the other team to do anything.

OHK on everyone but heavies. Heavies even fully buffed cannot take more then 3 at best... and 4 snipers can easily take a bead on him from the range they are at on that map.

I am seeing more and more "snipers" camping in the game on many maps. I got no problem with snipers... but the map design makes some locations simply impossible to get to without exposing yourself. I agree its the maps... but seriously what is going to be worse?

Lowering the damage (best option to me is no self buff. I actually like that supplies are JUST for teammates, but otherwise no double buff) for the gun? Or having to have more maps out of server rotations because no-one is willing to play them?


As it is container city is seeing a lot of start of game quiting, and now (cannot remember the name) the hotel one might too. It is a lot easier to rebalance a weapon that is out of whack for the game, then rebuild the maps. Even if the weapon is perfectly balanced by the stats... which I think it is... certain maps are making it impossible to deal with.


And the person that said just freerun... seriously you have no clue what your talking about as you have not been on the recieving end of the sniper-fest.



NOTE: With all the above... it is in reference to PC play. Consoles are not as accurate as a M+K and thus you have a chance to get to safety. Ont he PC no chance.

I am quiet torn on the topic.

On one hand, the Barnett seems to become more popular by the day and can on some maps be an incredibly effective weapon. Basically it is a guaranteed kill on most shots with a bit if aim and picking the right targets. (when buffed)

On the other hand, most sniper spots can either be accessed from different angles or can be sniped easily from both sides. So if one side gets sniped, they could just pick up snipers them selves, take out the other time and move forward again.

That of course leads to situations where you have a stalmate for some time, with snipers on both sides, getting revived over and over in the worst of cases.
Effectively nullifying the greatest aspect of the game, which is fast and fluid combat.

Best would be to make the Barnett unbuffable and leave the rest as is.

Or unbuffable on certain maps. But either way, the other weapons should be left alone. They seem to be well balanced as far as I can tell.

Yeah I'm not getting the spawn locking argument either. Heavies with Gatling guns can do the same thing. If the weapon itself presented a clear advantage in being the only way you could lock an enemy spawn point down then I could see calling for a nerf. Considering though that the same strategy can be achieved with relative ease with the Gatlung gun or even sub machine guns with a little adjustment I don't think the argument holds water. Most maps don't even offer a huge line of sight advantage to long range scoped weapons anyway. Basically almost any perch you could find to snipe from is within range of an assault rifle or a well lobbed grenade.

The difference beeing that with a Gatling gun i need more then 1 hit. When i shoot at someone at some range with a gatling he will have time to slide to nearby cover etc.
1 Barnett Headshot or 2 Bodyshots from 2 different snipers = instakill.

High instant damage always has advantages over a constant stream of higher damage in certain situations.
Fact is that the game was advertised as not having these situations where you get into a sniper stalmate. Yet we do. So:
1) No engi buffs counting on Barnet
2) Light not able to wear it (those rifles weigh a lot, its called "light rifle" but a minigun isnt a pocket mg either)

Yet another use for the op's desquise ability. Which people say is useless. Run up behind sniper, melee sniper, shoot sniper while he's down on his @$$.

Well at the ranges in this game those would have no effect realistically...

I think the balance on the snipers is fine. maybe keep them the same and make then medium weapons or something? Make the shotgun a light instead? I would be cool with that

i agree 100%. the reload is agonisingly long and its rof isnt out of hand. i like it the way it is.

I don't see this as a serious issue, just strenghten your tactics and learn to flank and/or communcate with team mates to get rid of certain threats.

I see people claiming you can do the same kind of camping with gatling guns, come on did you even think that comment trough? Unlike the sniper the gatling gun user actually has to put him self in a position where he can be reached, thats the major diffrence.

As for using disguises, I use them when I have a chance, how ever when the maps turn into sniper stalmates you won't have anyone to use for the disguise, and even if you did It will take some amazing luck to deal with more then one of the snipers before you are picked off.

b-nArmz strenghtening tactics really won't do much when all these flanks you speak of are dead locked by sniper, mines, turrets, ar/smg users.

Infact as it is currently you have a better chance of suriving by not trying to flank, because the flanks are not so many that the snipers don't know about them, you can bet your ass they do .

Could a Experienced pre-made team vs a random deal with it? most likely since you could coordinate with mics etc, and have some 3 medics hideing behind a heavy.. sadly that heavy would also drop in 1-2 headshots(2 if fullybuffed), and heavies hitboxes arnt exactly small, and the medics would die like flies.

Point is you cannot expect people to play with pre-made grps all the time, casual gamers usually play alone, should they be punished for that?

ok so i get the argument that a team of 4 snipers can lock down a team in their spawn in pug games, sounds to me like one team is more organized and using more tactics than the other, why should they not win? Just because ur team can not pull it together to counter them... thats dumb

Nobody is being punished for not playing with a premade group, however the game shouldn't carry them, if ur in a bad team vs a better team, im sorry, u just loose, deal with it and Learn2play

Edit: someone i think made a post aimed at me in regards to another post i did thinking that i want nothing in the game to change, thats not true, but wepon ballance is pretty decent as is, and nerfing and buffing things needlessly is a waste of time and a good way to ruin a game, like i said learn to play within the constraints of the game and adapt.

Container City is just a horrible map for the team with the bot. Nearly every time I've played that map the team with the bot gets spawn camped. Usually, the only way they made it past the gate was because of the initial push. Then, the majority of the team gets snipers and it's gg. Sometimes it's not because one team is better than the other, it's because a map favors one side considerably more than the other side.

i agree, sometimes the maps do favor one side, but thats a whole different argument, poor map design. However, specifically container city is not because of snipers, or any other specific class/wepons. iv been on both the giving and receiving end of the first obj spawn camp many times, and both times there was no snipers involved. So, perhaps snipers were involved in your instance, they are not the determining factors.

I don't mind getting steam rolled by a tacticaly superior team drip, It happens from time to time.
How ever that is the issue with barnet, It does not require tactics or coordination to pull of, it becomes to effective without it.

And even when playing teams who steam roll us (pre-made etc) I still manage to fight back in some sense which makes dieing to them a whole lot less annoying.
When you feel you have no way of fighting back that takes ALOT away from the game.

1 Sniper is tactical, 4 is unbalanced. Which I pretty much whatt Im saying.

Container city can get pretty hairy, but atleast there they are close enough to be flashbanged effectivly, and since its such a short stretch if you all run out at ones 2 or 3 people after that flashbang, then you can effectivly flank them.

Also you don't have to run very far in container city to get to the usual camping area.

but totally agree container city first part needs a third route for sec.

Some people clearly haven't been on the receiving end of the security tower nonsense. 4 + snipers = gg. I think the buff comments make a lot of sense. Preventing the engi buff from affecting light rifles would largely resolve the problem, also bullet travel time and some scope bob are necessary to make sniping require some small element of skill. Buffs in general need a look as well though, the double buffs make playing operative and especially soldier seem like a waste of time. I mean one health pip makes a huge difference, 2 makes an enormous difference. It's harder to see the difference with engi buffs, but its obvious that they also weigh combat odds in the buffed players favor enormously. Sure buffs are an element of team play, but the double buffs seem like overkill.



It's not real life, it's a game. :nope:

This

You're aware flashbangs don't have a "blast radius" as such, right?

They affect ANYONE WHO SEES THEM DETONATE. Toss one so it's in the doorframe where your team comes from, the snipers either have to look away, giving you time to run out, or get blinded, also giving you time to run out. Easy. And against anyone who isn't a sniper, I prefer to use Caltrops and Sticky Bombs or Molotovs personally.

i have no issue with snipers, as long as you keep moving erratically you should not have a problem. only times i was killed with one, was when i either tried to line up a well placed GL shot or when my friend wanted to test the power, stats, pros and cons with the two, then he used the rockstedi, since he found it more reliable. but most of the time i place as a medic and can stay alive quite well to assist the shooters and buffing. i only go into action when i am out of supplies and either wait for them to replenish or i die.

I hate to say that it matters but i do believe the reason i never see this is because console players cannot hit the broad side of a barn with anything carrying less than fifty bullets at any given time. Being that i play on ps3 i haven't seen a heightened use of this gun and probably for good reason, i rarely see anyone sit back and try to take accurate shots before they are barreled over by someone running through dropping ammo like its going out of style. I feel your pain but if this nerf is to happen i feel it best that it is kept to pc, because on console it seems to be a balanced yet underused weapon.

I had almost forgotten about this but yeah this pretty much destroys a spawn camp, especially if you have a couple of people grenade spike behind it. Flashbangs are great equalizers.

Ive not received this sniper spawn camping treatment you guys mention, but ive used the barnet fairly extensively recently. I first started & hated it, but in certain maps it comes into its own. Container city is one, pinning down that gate. If the team arent co-ordinated & a hacker doesnt open that side door its easy to pin the other team. & when they go for the serum in the 3rd(?) objective, plop urself on that bridge jus above the container & u can hold down the area nicely. I dont feel I was owning. I was generaly unnoticed certainly, but im playing low level at mo with new character so maybe no Combat Intuition? I rarely got one hit kills, often the enemy was finished off quickly, but they mostly came piece-meal. Its certainly very powerful but you do have to be accurate, its fire rate is atrocious, its reload as long if not longer than a hi-cap chinzor. I felt like I was aiding my team than being an outright god of battle lol but half a team with all barnets, on defence? That could be a problem. Its not the gun, its a lil more the maps fault, but mostly this sounds like players personalities. I have no idea how you'd fix that lol

The maps are supposed to favor the defender. In CC you're in the Resistance's yard for crying out loud. It should be near impossible to waltz through like you own the place.

Anywhere on that map that a guy with a barnett can shoot you from you can shoot him, and the reload time makes it really easy to ping him if he misses with his first shot, or hits somebody else. I think this is an issue nobody recognizes (or maybe nobody cares) when they complain about the Barnett, but if you don't hit with that first shot you're in deep [censored]. It requires you to be accurate and careful with the shots you take, if the enemy comes walking out one by one of course a barnett is going to keep you pinned down, but even with a team of 8 barnetts on CC there's no reason they should be able to completely hold your team unless your team is just a failure to begin with.

I don't for one second believe anybody, with the exception of the dev team, has exhausted all options when countering various weapons and loadouts so to think that you must be right because you fail to compete against it and therefore the dev team should change it is rather arrogant thinking.

actually it does have a blast raidus as such oblivion, if you arnt relativly close you'll still get hit but the effect will be about a split second.

Yes we can snipe back Mathonn, but all that achive is turning it into a big sniperwar, and with the security spawn being close Its not a war you will win. (speaking of sec tower)

And as far as container city goes, its hardly one of the most problematic maps when it comes to sniping, simply because its a close quarters map, so even if someone snipes you'll still have a chance at hitting them, blinding them or even blowing them up.

It's not a mather of my team playing poorly, I really wish It was.. my team can do everything right, and do great until the snipers come out of the woodwork, but ones they do its hasta la vista baby, and no a single sniper will not cause this problem, Its directly related to the sheer amount of snipers, the magic number being 4.


And yes with a good 46 hours of played time under my belt I would say I am experienced enough in the maps to know the various counters.

Wether you think I am arrogant Is honestly something I couldnt care less about.

Flashbangs might actually be an option against the spawn camping at SecTow but I do not play soldier so I do not know how they work. From what I have seen it blinds everyone so... if you toss it at the snipers.. wont your team be blinded as well? Seems to be that way when my team shoots one off.

Nope.

That's if you're hit by a friendly.

It lasts full duration regardless of distance if it was an enemy flashbang.