Regarding the main quest mission in Riften.



Regarding the main quest in Winterhold, I agree. Think back to Oblivion where we needed to decipher the Commentaries. We had to go to the mages guild and ask for help from the scholar, but we didn't have to join.

That's what I thought too. Maybe people didn't always try and find another solution?

Personally I have no problem with quests that intertwine things a bit. Dragons and stuff going down? Some guilds should feature. Not necessarily as something you have to join, but go and see at least.

I know if dragons return I'd be seeking out lore and wise men.

what crime? I dont remember having to commit any crime in the main quest
but ye I was refering specificaly to the fact that you are NOT actually forced to join faction or start questline of either theives guild or mages of winterhold

It gets worse when guards start talking to you as if you are the new recruit for the mages college.

I'm the leader of the companions, I saved the world from alduin, and I ended the civil war.... but I'm referred to as the new mages college initiate more than any of those last three.

It would have been better if you had to get to a further marker before guards and people said things about who you joined with. Or if you finish the questlines, if they would STOP TREATING YOU LIKE THE NEW GUY. I don't fetch mead you ****!

It's just like saying ''at the start of the game I was forced to escape Helgen''

This!



Vegas was from Obsidian, many of the original Fallout designers work there. Bethesda never gives you real choices besides "I do it, I don't".

1. You start the questline... it shows up in your quest log, that means you have started the questline. Those quests can be done without the MQ, but they are just stage 1 of getting into the guilds instead of a part of the MQ.

2. The game registers you as starting the questline so people make comments to you as if you are a thieves guild initiate or a winterhold student.

3. You are forced to pick a lock, steal, and frame an innocent man to progress the story.... for almost no reason whatsoever minus making the guy like you enough to help you. It didn't NEED to be in the story, it could have been one of the OPTIONS for getting him to help you. Another could have been a bribe, high speechcraft, or something that a good character could have done without feeling guilty.

no you are not... talk with the tavernkeeper isntead of doing what bryn asks you to
refuse bryn by saying "commit a crime? no way" or whatever the second option is.

you see in games by bethesda, quests sometimes lead your hand, but blind you to other real options, for example, and since I hate spoilers, there is more than one way to do the dark brotherhood quest line, if you dont restrict yourself to what people/quest logs say and explore other game mechanics, options open up.

No, you don't have to join, and going to get advice from the college makes perfect sense to me. I was just referring to how it makes no sense to have to involve the thieve's guild for the main quest, even if you don't have to join. There are other ways to finish, like you can find the person yourself, but if it's your first time there, you don't have any idea the guy you need is even in Riften at all. It steers you directly toward a crime. I didn't ever finish the main quest on my main character because I didn't realize you could find him yourself. Then again, what would my good guy even be doing in those places anyway? I didn't know who I needed was there.

Lol try the part where they make you talk to the thieves guild guy to find that old guy in the sewer. Ummm no I ain't a thieve, so i told him to screw off and went into the rat way myself. Well i killed everyone that was killable and got his old azz outa there.

I have been through this topic, deleted all the personal attacks and those dragging real life politics into the discussion. Leave it all out, if you are not able to make posts on topic and in keeping with forum rules, best not post - OK?

The way I see it, making you join the college is no different than making me clear out a dungeon. I have no choice but to clear out that dungeon, so if I want to finish the quest, I'd better grin and clear out that dungeon. I'm sorry but I'm not seeing the problem

Vegas was from Obsidian, many of the original Fallout designers work there. Bethesda never gives you real choices besides "I do it, I don't".
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You know what else they did... Took out Karma! You can't be good or evil in Skyrim. In Fallout people recognized your good or bad deeds in every city. Who gets power. Who gets the strip. Who survives in the Honest Hearts, big empty expansions. Who lives through Sierra Madre, Who gets Hoover dam. Do the boomers fly a B 52 bomber ? You decide !

Well, that is the problem.
"Be who you want, do what you want"
But that becomes less and less so with each part of the series.
It becomes more linear and forced.

Xhuth! After reading all these posts, and having only played 1.5 hours of Skyrim at my friend's house (with my PC collector's edition still in the box in my living room), TESV sounds like the worst game out of the series when it comes to gameplay. Technology and graphics wise, it's the best because it's the newest, but holy cow, seeing multiple people reporting the same game-play issues and mechanics issues is a very big disappointment to me. At least I still have my Daggerfall and Morrowind to play... okay, and Oblivion.

Yes, I agree 100%.

I was quite literally shocked when I was forced to joint he thieves guild in the main-quest, it just felt so out of Bethesda's character to do that. Its IMPOSSIBLE to RP as anything but Dragonborn or some hermit in the woods.

I am with the op. Had the same feeling. Yes, my character does some magic.

But just an alteration shield spell, an illusion Clarvoyance spell and a restoration healing when in terrible need. Other that that I face every situation with potions. Every single one. How suddenly everyone thinks I am archmage material is beyond me.

I guess you know best compared the people who actually makes the game for you. If you want the perfect game, then by all [censored] means go make it your [censored] self.

What does this have to do with the price of fish?

Oh, come on now. I'll use both examples here-

A thing called "X" is in that dungeon. You need to get it to accomplish a needed task. Yeah, it IS forced- you need it to complete the task! You can't make an iron dagger without leather strips and an iron ingot, either, right? In these cases, the only choices ARE- "you can or you can't"

People in a guild have info and input you need. To gain access to them, you must join that guild. Yup, forced again, and it makes perfect sense, just like you can't get Legion quests without joining the legion!

What choices do you feel there should be? Wait for another hero to get the item or knowledge, and then win that item or knowledge in a tic-tac-toe contest? Or maybe rock paper scissors? Be reasonable here. That has nothing at all to do with "be who you want, do what you want". A quest is a quest is a quest. If you want to finish the quest you do what is required. That's why it's a "Quest". You can either succeed or fail.

They took out "karma" as a thing that has a number value. It still exists in concept, the NPCs still regard you based on your actions, you just no longer have a stat for it that is displayed

Those examples do not equate to each other for the same reason a puddle is not an ocean.

No, it does not make perfect sense to be forced to join a guild, only in linear games.
There are a myriad of other ways imaginable to achieve the same goal.
To say that the only way is to join an organisation is remarkably short sighted.
This is like saying we dont need an open spell, because we have lockpicking.
Goes against the premise of the game, goes against roleplaying and removes choice.

Have alternative means of obtaining said information, for example? Like, steal a note left by Esbern to the Guild/his supplier?

+1


I have avoided joining the College because it doesn't fit the RP of my character. I didn't even know that College is needed for the main storyline because that one is glitched for me in Cornered Rat, but now I'm even more disappointed.


Everyone who says this is open-world RPG is on drugs. This game is just as linear as any other I played. And you're not even allowed to take the wrong road and meet a NPC before you get the quest for him, or the game will glitch and later when you need to talk to that NPC it will all be bugged.


Skyrim looks great on surface but is completely superficial. Even the lore is one of the worse I've seen, with almost all gods being repulsive, etc etc.

That's perfectly and 100% irrelevant to the post of mine you commented on.

It also has nothing to do with roleplaying, unless you choose to roleplay a person that refuses to join a guild, and in that case, yes, you fail! Sorry! Choices mean the ability to lose, by definition. And if you have the ability to choose poorly, you absolutely have choices.

I also asked you about what choices you feel you should have in those instances, and instead of giving me examples you just tell me I'm wrong. I don't call that a convincing rebuttal. :shrug: