Forshadowings of World War II

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:20 pm

Has anyone else noticed how Skyrim is giving all this foreshadowing of world war II (Now I know TES is its own world the references are well spread out but they are there)

The Great War seems to be the TES Equivlent of world war I (heck its even what world war I was called before world war II)

The parallels to Nazi Germany seems to be spread between the Thalmor and Skyrim

Skyrim
  • The feeling of ill use in weimar germany resembles the feelings of the stormcloaks about the empire
  • Ulfirc Stormcloak has many parrels to hittler (Charismatic war hero but tends to only care about "his" people, etc)
  • The nationalism and pro-nord behavior displayed by many storm-cloaks resembles that of the early nazi party)

Thalmor
  • Seem to have the same ideology as the Nazi's
  • The "small political party gaining control due to crises theme"
  • The some youth rebelling etc.
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natalie mccormick
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:30 am

Who are the jews?
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suzan
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:58 pm

No.

Not even remotely close.
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Jinx Sykes
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:44 pm

The Great War and World War one have nothing in common. The Thalmor directly sought conflict with the Empire, where as WW 1 was a concequence of substantal military alliances that criss crossed the globe, much like a domino affect. Nation X is attacked by nation Y and thus nation Z is allied with nation X so they interviene against nation Y, but you can't forget nation Y is allied with nation W who allied with nation N ect. ect. The Great War and World War One are eons appart in similarities. I never got the feeling of a parallel between Tamriels ''Great Wars" (soon to be wars likely) and ours.
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Andrew
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:37 pm

You do realize people like Hitler and similar idealogies of the Nazi's have been around long before WW2? Nationalism even further, and the "Charismatic war hero but tends to only care about "his" people" can be assigned to alot of people from history. Still, I don't blame you for pointing out the similarities, the fact that the Thalmor in Skyrim seem to view all races except high elves as inferior is similar, but not a direct reference.
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Hazel Sian ogden
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:30 am

The High Elves have always thought that, looong before the Thalmor as we know them now.
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Marcin Tomkow
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:59 pm

They didn't exactly have an "empire" devoted to racial cleansing till now did they ? :laugh:
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Dagan Wilkin
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:46 am

They didn't exactly have an "empire" devoted to racial cleansing till now did they ? :laugh:

The original Aldmeri Dominion?
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Jade MacSpade
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 5:37 pm

The original Aldmeri Dominion?

I thought the orginal Aldmeri Dominion didn't get much further than valenwood. Not much racial cleansing.
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Shiarra Curtis
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:25 am

I thought the orginal Aldmeri Dominion didn't get much further than valenwood. Not much racial cleansing.

No the origional Aldmeri Dominion was composed of Summerset and Valenwood with alliances with the Maomer and the Elsweyr Confederation. It was from that era we hear stories of them killing their own babies to insure racial purity, which I think is just propaganda, but none the less they've always been about Altmer superiority and racial purity. All outsiders, including other mer, were not fit to step foot on the isles and it was considered blashphemy to breed outside the Altmer line.
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Auguste Bartholdi
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:26 am

I thought the orginal Aldmeri Dominion didn't get much further than valenwood. Not much racial cleansing.

And the current one did?
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Thomas LEON
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 4:33 am

It counts for a eugenics program.

They did sack the imperial city this time around :laugh:
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Hussnein Amin
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:28 pm

The feeling of ill use in weimar germany resembles the feelings of the stormcloaks about the empire
Not exactly. Yes, they feel they were sold out, but sold out by people they view as foreign milk-drinkers who shouldn’t even have a say in the running of Skyrim. Not their own political leadership (or insidious schemes of deep-cover Fantasy!Jews).

Ulfirc Stormcloak has many parrels to hittler (Charismatic war hero but tends to only care about "his" people, etc)
Caring about anyone beyond your own people on any substantive level is a rather recent idea. Ulfric's attitudes certainly aren't out of place in pseudomedieval fantasy.

The nationalism and pro-nord behavior displayed by many storm-cloaks resembles that of the early nazi party)
And pretty much every other stridently nationalist force that ever existed.

Seem to have the same ideology as the Nazi's
Which is what, in your view? Kill the inferior races and take their lands? Well, that is a relatively recent idea insofar as the concept of race is a relatively new one--but still not exclusive to the Nazis, and people have been operating on a "kill the foreigner and take their lands" basis for a very long time.

The "small political party gaining control due to crises theme"
Hardly Nazi-exclusive. Factions have used crises to their own benefit throughout history.

The some youth rebelling etc.
youth rebelling
youth rebelling
…really? I mean, really?
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sarah
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:47 am

I did not mean its exactly like that, just that a lot of things are coming together it would not surprise me if there is some sort of equivalent of world war II.

I agree that each of these on their own would mean nothing but i think there might be something to them all happening
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Rebekah Rebekah Nicole
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:26 am

It was from that era we hear stories of them killing their own babies to insure racial purity, which I think is just propaganda, but none the less they've always been about Altmer superiority and racial purity.

One mers abortion clinic is another mans baby slaughter house.
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BrEezy Baby
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:47 am

Caring about anyone beyond your own people on any substantive level is a rather recent idea. Ulfric's attitudes certainly aren't out of place in pseudomedieval fantasy.

Pedantic differ-begging: Ulfric's attitudes are slightly anomalous. The issue hinges on the definition of 'your own people'. 'My allies' or 'my relatives' or 'allies of my lord' or even 'fellow citizens' would not be out of place, but 'people who speak my language/share X custom/live within Y arbitrary geographical unit' are arguably more modern. I think the OP is right to detect a strong whiff of fascism from the Dominion and the stink of Freikorps from the Stormcloaks- the problem is that the broader historical context is very different. The anology only goes so far.
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..xX Vin Xx..
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:16 pm

Pedantic differ-begging: Ulfric's attitudes are slightly anomalous. The issue hinges on the definition of 'your own people'. 'My allies' or 'my relatives' or 'allies of my lord' or even 'fellow citizens' would not be out of place, but 'people who speak my language/share X custom/live within Y arbitrary geographical unit' are arguably more modern. I think the OP is right to detect a strong whiff of fascism from the Dominion and the stink of Freikorps from the Stormcloaks- the problem is that the broader historical context is very different. The anology only goes so far.

While despite several centuries of Atmoran volkism encouraged by the late Septim dynasty, it would seem that fascism of any stripe is antithetical to the Nord's mythic skeleton of "Severely Individualistic Viking/Canon Riffs".
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kiss my weasel
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:31 pm

Quote

World War 2 wasn't all about Nazis.

You basically are saying, what's happening in Skyrim reminds you of the formation of the Nazi state.

I would dare to say that you probably wouldn't think this if the Stormcloaks were Argonians, the Altmer Akaviri, and the Empire, Dunmer, for example.

And I think it's all a bit sloppy.
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XPidgex Jefferson
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:40 am

World War 2 wasn't all about Nazis.

You basically are saying, what's happening in Skyrim reminds you of the formation of the Nazi state.

I would dare to say that you probably wouldn't think this if the Stormcloaks were Argonians, the Altmer Akaviri, and the Empire, Dunmer, for example.

And I think it's all a bit sloppy.
Honestly, Skyrim would be much more awesome if it was about Argonians fighting Dark Elves and Snakemen.
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Travis
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:48 am

World War 2 wasn't all about Nazis.

You basically are saying, what's happening in Skyrim reminds you of the formation of the Nazi state.

I would dare to say that you probably wouldn't think this if the Stormcloaks were Argonians, the Altmer Akaviri, and the Empire, Dunmer, for example.

And I think it's all a bit sloppy.

Actually I'd think the same thing.
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JERMAINE VIDAURRI
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:33 am

Honestly Lotr is more comparable to WW2 then the elder scrolls.

And Ulfric comparable to Hitler? lol not even close, Ulfric is relatively good compared to the majority of medieval kings and rulers.
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Benjamin Holz
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:52 am

Still it's easy to see similarities, on deeper inspection they don't hold up but it's not unlikely that at least some inspiration for the current state of Tamriel was drawn from that era.
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Naughty not Nice
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:32 am

The Empire's stretched out too thin with all the rebellions and what not; they're not going to risk another war. But the Redguards are already rebelling against the Aldmeri Dominion and Elsweyr is due for a rebellion as well, once they realise the Altmer had nothing to do with the moons returning, and that it was all propaganda.
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Isabel Ruiz
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 3:46 pm

Well, I do not disagree with the OP so much as most of the previous posters. There are patterns that can be compared to Nazi behaviour but aswell as many other partys throughout history. Now I don't see Ulfric as a person that can be compared to Hitler, though he is a charicmatic leader and therefore people will follow him everywhere, maybe even so far to abandon the original cause.

But you do mix it up a little; the Thalmor are described as Nazis and then you call on to the Stormcloaks. In one szenario you could describe the Thalmor as the Jews (although they control everything with power instead of with money) but in another the Thalmor are pretty fascistic themselfs.

Skyrim is more likeable to be compared to Ireland. The far-far away rulership of the British (Cyrodillic) Empire has proven itself incompetent and now they seek independence. But we do not know how extreme Ulfric is after all. He could provoke a racial cleansing or he can establish peace treaties with the Dominion aswell as with the Empire. It is a dangerous situation though as Ulfric seems to be a Spy of the Thalmor. If this is to be revealed, another man could take his spot with far more extreme methods to assure the liberty of Skyrim.

(This is by the way a very interesting question and Bethesda could score many points if they'd lead us to a scenario of eugenics. Nowadays, controversy is a better currency then graphics and gameplay; just look at the Call of Duty franchise)
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Juan Cerda
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:39 am

Comparing Ulfric to Hitler is a joke, plain and simple. They are nothing alike except in the most basic "ruler fighting for his people" thing, but the same could be said for almost every ruler. Hell, Balgruuf is the same way and no one is calling him Hitler. Ulfric doesn't hate the other races. He lets the Dunmer into his city and gave them a whole section of it. Sure, it's not the fanciest part of the city and they don't typically get the best treatment, but it is by no means comparable to acts of genocide. Some of the elves in Windhelm are quite comfortable.

If we're comparing anyone to the Nazis, it should be the Thalmor. They're the ones whose goals involve wiping out all human races and forgetting they ever existed. The Stormcloaks don't want that at all, they just want to be left alone with their culture and society intact; to live the way they want to.
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Kortknee Bell
 
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