what about the dodging perks that actually made combat slightly more realistic than run forward and back wards to avoid enemy attacks? that was a perk rewarded for acrobatics.

I missed levitate more than jump spells and running spells .


I think running was to slow in Oblivion but that is bbesdie the point

except that acrobatics and athletics would only level you up if you diliberatly selected them as skills. and it took for freaking ever to level them up once past 50-60 even if you did jump every where. no, its a fake arguement to say that acrobatics leveled you up when you intended it not too, it only happens if you pick it as a skill. so if you do pick it and you don't like leveling up because you jump around every where thats your own dang fault. same goes for athletics, they only level you up if you wanted them to level them up, that was a choice you diliberatly had to make. you can't blame the skills or a system for that.

I do like the sprint function, just not as a replacement for a skill. seriously! replacing a skill with a button.

Since when did acrobatics and athletics only level up if selected as major or minor? They leveled more slowly if they were miscelaneous, but they definitely still leveled. Whether or not leveling through acrobatics was intended or not is beside the point, you shouldn't be forced to hop around like an mope just to make good travel time. When skills are leveled up through use, it almost always better to make "use" defined as "active use". This is how it works for almost every skill.

edit: whoops mis-spoke, made no sense...

Acrobatics/Athletics only cause you to unintentionally level up when you pick them as Majors. Otherwise them leveling up every now and again only affects you getting a couple unintended attribute modifiers. And unless you're being massively anol about that sort of thing, this particular phenomenon is pretty much a non-issue.

Anyways, I think it would have been better to just seen the two merged into one rather than taken out altogether. A combined Athletics/Acrobatics skill would be able to have just as many options as any other skill would perk wise and would appease those who like having such a skill.

The leveling thing isn't even the real issue, at least not with Morrowind-style superjump.


Oblivion didn't have that, or levitation, because they didn't want you clearing town walls (since the walled towns are "interior" cells).

For the same reason, there wouldn't have been MW Superjump in Skyrim, even if Acrobatics was still a skill.

:shrug:

I am actually of the opinion that jumping slows you down, even if it doesn't being that slightly much faster isn't worth having zero fatigue when encountering an enemy, especially a mountain lion which if pretty much garanteed to knock you over again and again if you have zero fatigue

what I was talking about with leveling was not leveling up the skill but leveling up your character. people say that their character level rose to high because of acrobatics, which is a stupid complaint because like I said you have to diliberatly pick acrobatics or athletics skill as major skill for them to level your character up by use. so again, its something people have made up long after OB has been out just to justify the destruction of somthing they were apathetic about.

@kiralyn2000, except for mods it could be done in OB, probably in SK too depending on what stat they base jump height off of.

You bring up a good point... It would be interesting to see race choice affect more than appereance and some base stats...

If Khajit could jump higher, Argonians could breath underwater much longer, etc. It would be like the physical continuation of their stat bonuses!

I do not know why, but I got in the habit of jumping and sprinting everywhere in every game. So when I started playing Oblivion my acrobatics and athletics always seemed to level faster than some of the major skills I would choose.

well to be honest I super doubt that acrobatics and athletics were cut because some people irrationally viewed them as an exploit that they had to use as well as others who ignorantly believe they serve no purpose. but were probably cut because they needed each of the three macro attributes to have the same number of governed skills. purely for balance, i believe to much balance causes issue with leveling like we saw with enemies in OB. so merging them together would still probably not be an option.

In Oblivion, jumping over houses while wearing full deadric gear was pretty stupid. At least it was in my opinion... I always picked acrobatics and athletics for my fighters because it makes sense that I would want to have every skill advantage possible if I were to get up close and personal to my foes. The side effect of running faster than horses and jumping over buildings in full daedric gear kinda irritated me.

Dodge should have been the skill, not the perk.

I like climbing mountains, not jumping over them. :biggrin: There's a lot of cool stuff on Skyrim's mountains, after all. :drool: Seriously though, Todd already said that there's not a lot of gameplay for running and jumping (meaning there's no possible perks for them, which is why they were removed as skills). I think it will still be possible to increase running speed and jumping height, most likely through our health and stamina. A new formula has most likely been devised to prevent Hulk jumping and Flash running; this is speculation, though.

But what if I like super jumping, and running at the speed of light...

Which doesn't really matter when running everywhere will also reduce your fatigue to zero. In both cases, you're moving around with zero stamina, but with jumping you move faster and have a better chance of dodging that incoming attack.

This isn't so much an issue of balance as it is realism anyways. You shouldn't be able to jump continuously, faster than you run because you are not a pogo stick.

Ah, I misunderstood you. I still think there is reason enough to limit skill leveling to active usage. It makes things much more player and context driven, rather than silly grinds for level ups.

I'd say they got rid of them because they made no sense. Athletics... who doesn't run? Extremely few people wouldn't, as there's no reason not to run and quite a few reasons to run (what do you mean I have to walk?). Same with Acrobatics... who doesn't jump? What do you gain by not jumping? A skill is useless as a defining characteristic if everybody does it. It would be better to have related perks so that you can actively choose to improve yourself in those ways, as opposed to making all characters improve that way by virtue of simply playing the game.

Especially in a game where all skills contribute to your overall level, it would be pretty bad to have auto-levelling skills like that.

Ah, but if we merged the two skills, brought back Mysticism (as it rightfully should be), and then introduced a new Combat skill, then balance would have been struck more or less. (I'm probably missing one or undercounting but you get the point) This is a time when the games should start expanding the character system, not shrinking it. But then again, considering Beth's continued drive to find a game engine they can stick with (yes they stuck with Gamebryo for a while, but it was vastly changed between the games) is likely to turn that into a very unlikely possibility. Add on top of that stupid pandering to casuals and you got yourself a regression that wasn't always called for to the degree it happened between each game. (Much of the changes Daggerfall->Morrowind were fairly necessary but the Morrowind->Oblivion transition was fairly sad)



This is why they should have been expanded (and then merged for simplicity issues. They can be legitimately combined) not just cut. Though the benefits of the Oblivion style perks were not always that obvious (and in acrobatics case near useless) they were a step in the right direction, and if the dodge system was fleshed out better and running dynamics brought to a more realistic level then we could have had two skills (or a Skill) that would prove massively useful for any character.

Plus as far as the whole auto-leveling thing, that's only an issue when you choose one of the skills as a major. And if you do so, then thats your problem. No one's forcing you to do that and before you come up with the whole attribute grind issue, that was only because of Oblivion's terrible level scaling which a lot of times would screw you over even if you meta-gamed.

We definitely still need the ability to jump high and run fast if thats who are build is. Removing it removes depth, variety and gameplay styles. Not to mention its totally realistic for Nirn.

Im hoping they put some perks in to kinda simulate the acrobatics and athletics, but im glad there gone with the changes they've made on leveling,

We don't know that they're outright cut. They're not there as skills (due to the aforementioned issues), but that doesn't mean there won't be perks related to moving faster or jumping higher.


Skyrim doesn't have major skills.

Which is dumb. People do not increase their speed in increments. It grows as their athletic ability grows. Same with acrobatics.



Who said I was talking about Skyrim? Obviously the focus was on the past games take on Athletics/Acrobatics coupled with the leveling systems of those games.

Both of those conditions are undesirable.

First lay off the coffee. Less jumpy.

Get a good antihistamine for your runny. It is rather gross streaming from your nose.

:goodjob:




As for these abilities being removed, well, stuff happens.

I expect actualy while making falloutn 3 there had already decided to nuke athletics and acrobatics from orbit. Fallout 3 was much more enjpyable by many and sold more in part because of differences with runspeed and jumping.. amoung other things.

No its clear its very unlikely skyrim ever had athletics or acrobatics.

Ever played mw, with a low level char, with a low level weapon skill, with bad agility, and then faced a mudcrab?
What do you think happens:

answer :