Francesco's Leveled Creature-item mod : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:57 am

Well i'd really like to drop the exe installers, drop the caliper scripts, and get everything into a nice neat ESM+ESP+BSA style package.

Obviously it's not something I intend to rush into without some kind of plan.

Thinking the same myself, drop the exe installer (works for some other does not) . Drop the caliper scripts (due to issue that happens with it for some) and making esm/esp/bsa package has well. Fix the injected records and script's. Sure there is alot more that needs tweaking or fixed..UOP Fixes for sure.

Something that would have to be planned for Sure. And Done in steps per say.

I can help where I can. But already have 3 other Overhauls to look after.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:23 pm

Should probably pull No Backwards Running from the bundle, too.

Great to see you around here, Fran. Plan to say for a bit?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:38 pm

I strongly prefer BAIN for a variety of reasons, but as far as I'm concerned (yeah, just another user of mods, I know...) the best solution is OMOD-ready + BAIN-ready in one.

It's apparently not hard to do, and I've plenty of mods on the HDD right now that are exactly like that. Best of both worlds.

Just to get the BAIN idea out there and share what I did (not trying to beat a dead horse with it - just want to share). Here is the Main Frans-BAIN package I made:

Spoiler

Francesco Complete-BAIN
├[00 Francesco Core]
│ ├[Docs]
│ ├Francesco - FraNewItems.bsa
│ ├Francesco - FranNewCrea.bsa
│ └Francesco.esp
├[10 Fran hardcoe with MOBS and Lyrondor]
│ ├Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
│ ├Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm
│ └Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
├[10 Fran hardcoe without MOBS or Lyrondor]
│ ├Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
│ ├Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm
│ └Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
├[20 Fran Enemy Options]
│ ├Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
│ ├Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
│ └Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
├[21 Fran Loot Options]
│ ├Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Locks.esp
│ ├Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Loot.esp
│ └Francesco's Optional House Chest Loot.esp
├[22 Frans Additional Encounters]
│ ├Francesco's More Wilderness Life.esp
│ └Francesco's Optional New Adventurers.esp
├[25 Frans Leveled Options]
│ ├Francesco's Optional Leveled Arena.esp
│ ├Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
│ └Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests.esp
├[26 Frans Vendor tweaks]
│ └Francesco's Optional Vendor Tweaks.esp
├[27 Frans Level up Mini-mod]
│ └Francesco's level up mini mod.esp
├[40 Fran Armor Add On]
│ └Fran Armor Add-on.esp
├[45 Fran Lvl 30 Items]
│ └Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp

Then just for general info - here is how I packaged all the add-ons I could find:

Spoiler

Francesco Patches and Add Ons-BAIN
├[10 Optional Leveled Quests SI only (FCOM)]
├[15 UOP Optional Leveled Quest Patch Unmerged]
├[20 SM Frans OBSE Menu Plugin]
├[21 SM Chest Menu Fixes]
├[25 Seducer Script Fix]
├[26 Dark Seducer Weapon Fix]
├[28 Removers]
├[30 COBL Tweaks for Frans]
├[31 SI Wearable Armor for Frans]
├[35 Skill Based Damage and Durability]
├[36 Luck Base Loot for Frans]
├[37 No MOBS Run Limit]
├[40 HC Compatibility]
├[41 Fine Weapons Compatibility]
├[42 Rusty Items compatibility]
├[43 Dark Green Glass Compatibility]
├[50 Friendly Fire for Frans]
├[55 Ore Refiner for Frans]
├[60 TIE and Frans patch]
├[70 Fran for Robert Male]
├[75 Fran for Bab Female]
├[75 Fran for Exnem Female]
├[75 Fran for Fantasy Figures]
├[75 Fran for Robert Female]
├[90 Phitts Fran Reset]

Actually I did add the unofficial lvl 30 and armor add on to the main package, so 40 & 45 would not be part of the official.

I had made an FCOM only package, but not necessary. Now that BAIN has an install wizard getting it to work so that it installs only FCOM parts would be easy.

All I did was run the exe as many times as I could think to get the main variations. If things like MOBS matters in the level guards esp or other esp then it is not comprehensive. I also opted for no living economy, but variations could be made for that.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:46 pm

Wow, thank you Francesco! :twirl:
Right now I am in the middle of translating the readme, should finish it soon, will let you know when it's ready. Thanks.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:30 pm

Here is the Main Frans-BAIN package I made:

Yikes. :blink: Quite the alaborate setup, compared to my own Fran's BAIN packages.

But in a good way - don't get me wrong.

I'm still pretty new to a bunch of Wrye Bash's functions in general, and BAIN in particular.

Thanks. It'll give me more ideas for creating my own.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:14 am

As also stated in the other thread.... I encourage anyone to do his own modifications to the mod.

Not that it doesn't make me a little sad to see the mod stripped of some of its key features like the high customizability, but so many years has passed since I last updated Frans... I'm not supporting it anymore and is only thanks to all of you that this is still alive.
Please remove/add/change all you want, and if needed repackage everything in a new download.
This is my tribute to all of you

Francesco

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:02 am

Thanks for an excellent mod Francesco, the game would be unplayable without it.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:18 pm

one of the best mods indeed

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:25 pm

Not that it doesn't make me a little sad to see the mod stripped of some of its key features like the high customizability

Don't misunderstand... you haven't been around for some of the wonderful developments we've had. No customizability will be lost if it is repackaged for OBMM and/or BAIN... to the contrary, it will be easier for the end-user to add and remove features from within their preferred mod management software!

Also, due to the diligent efforts of the OBSE team, many of your sub-modules (timescale, respawn timer, skill rate adjustments, no backwards running) are significantly less configurable than modern alternatives. Your overhaul has suffered less from this than Oscuro's, simply due to less bundling; but both are long overdue for some deconstruction. Between OBSE and Wrye Bash, few things need to be merged for compatibility anymore.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:08 pm

Welcome back, Fran! :wave:

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:10 pm

Don't misunderstand... you haven't been around for some of the wonderful developments we've had. No customizability will be lost if it is repackaged for OBMM and/or BAIN... to the contrary, it will be easier for the end-user to add and remove features from within their preferred mod management software!

Also, due to the diligent efforts of the OBSE team, many of your sub-modules (timescale, respawn timer, skill rate adjustments, no backwards running) are significantly less configurable than modern alternatives. Your overhaul has suffered less from this than Oscuro's, simply due to less bundling; but both are long overdue for some deconstruction. Between OBSE and Wrye Bash, few things need to be merged for compatibility anymore.

I was mainly reffering to the plans to remove the scripts that let you tweak and customize in game almost everything about loot with a few clicks (and easily add new items). As far as I know, even after so many years, there's still nothing like that around.
Anyway as I already said ... don't worry... do anything you feel needed to improve the game for you and others! From now on... anyone should feel free to do whatever he wants with this mod.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:34 am

Ah! Right, the "calipers scripts." I've never used that option myself, forgot about it! But I know there's been a problem for many people where eventually, for unknown reasons, all loot everywhere turns into calipers. I'm not sure whether anyone's really looked into fixing this; definitely better to keep the feature if possible. It could certainly be implemented more cleanly with OBSE, which can now edit leveled lists at runtime from scripts... and IMO it's about time for a proper overhaul to embrace OBSE! The OOO team has stayed away from it to maintain compatibility with Direct2Drive, but Steam is compatible (kudos to Valve for that!) and far more popular at this point.

Anyway, the most immediate re-packaging will be done for FCOM, which mostly just adds your optional extra creatures and items to the OOO lists; that's probably why they're talking about stripping out features. I'm pretty sure that when someone starts working on a proper update of the Francesco's core (which is inevitable, now that you've given express permission!) that bug will be properly investigated.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:45 pm

Is there any way to disable the part of Francesco's that doesn't allow you to run backwards. I know it's about balance, but this really irritates me.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:46 pm

Yes that is available as a patch found on the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17621 page.

If you use Wrye Bash it is mergable into bash.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:21 pm

Has anyone ever had a problem using Frans and finding that some NPCs end up half naked (without pants, specifically female vampires)
They have pants in their inventory but are choosing to go commando. I can't figure out what the frig is going on

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:54 am

Has anyone ever had a problem using Frans and finding that some NPCs end up half naked (without pants, specifically female vampires)
They have pants in their inventory but are choosing to go commando. I can't figure out what the frig is going on

From previous threads:
Q: OMG!!! All my bandits are Nekkid. And I'm finding only Calipers in the loot. What gives? Why are the bandits running around in the buff and where is their treasure?

A: Hate to say it, but 'G' likely doesn't give a hoot. But I do, heh. nvde or topless NPCs (this can happen with any of them, actually) and loot chests filled to bursting with calipers are a sign that the loot tables need to be reset. Lucky for you this can and should be done in game. First try this method: Go to a location with no NPCs (a player owned house is perfect). Open the console (its that handy '~' key again) and type in startquest fransmenu. Under Manage Settings select "reset to defaults". Then wait for the cells to reset for the number of days you have selected as your respawn time (If you haven't selected any then the game's default is 3 days) plus one day. This process should reset the cells with the bandits (Or other NPCs) and loot. If this doesn't work then you can roll back to an older save and try the reset again. Usually though this solves the issue.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:28 pm

Funny part about this is it happened on a new game, so if that's all it takes for it to mess up the loot tables then there is something wrong

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:08 am

I've been looking at some of Frans' scripts specifically the ones for loot. These involve the dreaded calipers that are in the many leveled lists.
For example:

scn FranLoot00HBoots

Ref NPC
Ref NPC2
Begin GameMode

set NPC2 to GetContainer
if NPC2.GetDisabled == 1
return
elseif NPC != 0 && NPC == GetContainer
removeMe
elseif GetQR FranLoot0Armor == 0 && FranLoot0Armor.NPC == 0
set NPC to GetContainer
set FranLoot0Armor.NPC to NPC
......

This is an object script that checks a quest and a value to make sure the way is clear for it to process. I think I understand the intent of the NPC2 and the reason to remove the 'item' from NPC so it can process the next 'item' event.

The problem maybe that NPC is not being set by the GetContainer in that frame and needs more time. This failure then cascades through the other leveled lists and associated scripts.
This may lead to the excessive calipers, not equipping items, and various other ailments.

It would be appreciated if some regular script writers took a look at this, to see if I'm even close.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 pm

Holy crap, so what you're saying is that you may have found the cause for those 2 bugs? The fact that they are related surprises me too.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:18 pm

Holy crap, so what you're saying is that you may have found the cause for those 2 bugs? The fact that they are related surprises me too.

Not sure about it. But if others would take a look and see what they think, it would be a good thing.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:36 pm

If you are looking at scripts, would you also look into why the blackwood company members have [censored] amounts of items on them? I know when I kill them for the fighters guild quest they are like that. I think someone said it had to do with frans maybe.

As far as what you think the problem might be with those 2 others bugs, I would be willing to test it out and see.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:34 pm

Anyone willing to take a look so we can possibly fix these problems?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:56 pm

Arthmoor and anyone else interested.

I recall you saying that it was a mystery what all might be in the exe installers for Frans - and after a request for a manual version of Nehrim was just now http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1118493-release-nehrim-at-fates-edge-english-version/page__view__findpost__p__16457340 http://innounp.sourceforge.net/.

Was wondering if it could be used to crack those exe open to see.

Also thinking of Immersive Interface.

Thanks arvythrend

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:05 pm

Very nice. There's a hell of a lot of stuff hiding inside the smaller of the two EXE files, but it should do wonders for figuring out exactly what's going on. Most of it on the surface looks like it's just variations on the same thing with different settings. Stuff OBSE could handle easy with an ini file.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:06 am

it was a mystery what all might be in the exe installers for Frans....

Until now. You can BAIN it in about 10 min now with my batch file. It's scripted Installation. Well, provided you have the requirements met.

Most of it is for 3 other languages german, italian, or french. And the bashed patch makes some plugins obsolete.

I think I have it all labeled correctly for FCOM now.

Anyway, http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36005
edit:Ifopps.linky = false
FixLinky
Endopps