[Nathan Maughan]

Ugh.. You don't get what a comprimise is, do you? We don't all like this system. We're trying to come up with some kind of comprimise that'll work for everyone. This will not work for everyone.

I don't really get why TES:V can't have both kind of Fast Travel system (Oblivion's and Morrowind's)
As I stated above, I really don't see any problem IF they design everything around Morrowind's system, meaning they give us
1. interesting landscapes
2. random quests, caves, tombs in the nowhere with and without handplaced artifacts or just pure random (again handplaced) stuff
3. detailed description on how to reach a place we are looking for
4. and dont send us around the whole province for every single quest.

FT in Oblivion annoyed the hell out of me because I had no other means of travel and I was basicly forced to cheat (I perceived it as such). Now if Morrowind had Oblivion's FT I wouldn't mind at all as I can just ignore it and treat it as a cheat/exploit like I do with alchemy, creeper and other stuff while people who liked Oblivion's FT better can instant teleporting around as much as they want.

I dont want to dictate how other people should play but I dont want my way of playing being taken away in favor of making everything easy (like it happened in Oblivion).
If the conditions above are met I really think there cant be a better compromise without completely redesigning the travel system.

[Kayla Keizer]

There have been systems of fast travel posted on this thread, that, personally, I see no problem with. I know a lot of them work for me, with my various problems with Oblivion's travel system, and I believe they work fine for those who like Oblivion's system. The only arguments about the systems is "it's different". Which is pretty much part of the definition of a comprimise.

[WYatt REed]

It is my experience that fast travel in Oblivion made things too easy for the player. The player simply fast travels everywhere the player can in order to finish quests more quickly. Oblivion style fast travel made making a unique and interesting landscape non-essential because players would just be fast traveling everywhere. Whenever I go somewhere in Cyrodil without fast traveling all I see around me are deciduous forests. Bland bland bland bland.

Fast travel in Morrowind was a pain, true, but it forced the player to explore the landscape due to how the majority of the quests were set up. The landscape wasn't static (oh look, trees and shrubbery) like in Oblivion (I know there is snow), it changed depending on the region the player was in.

I myself prefer Morrowind style fast travel. I'm also liking Hircines' idea for a teleportation spell.

Another way to fast travel in Morrowind: Levitation. Why the hell was it taken out? It added a whole new level to variety, combat, exploration and travel. I call shenanigans of BGS for taking it out. SHENANIGANS!

As a side note:

NO QUEST ARROW!!! That damned thing completely ruins the need to explore and figure things out for yourself. Remove it completely or have a way to turn it off.

[Eileen Collinson]

It is my experience that fast travel in Oblivion made things too easy for the player. The player simply fast travels everywhere the player can in order to finish quests more quickly. Oblivion style fast travel made making a unique and interesting landscape non-essential because players would just be fast traveling everywhere. Whenever I go somewhere in Cyrodil without fast traveling all I see around me are deciduous forests. Bland bland bland bland.

Fast travel in Morrowind was a pain, true, but it forced the player to explore the landscape due to how the majority of the quests were set up. The landscape wasn't static (oh look, trees and shrubbery) like in Oblivion (I know there is snow), it changed depending on the region the player was in.

I myself prefer Morrowind style fast travel. I'm also liking Hircines' idea for a teleportation spell.

Another way to fast travel in Morrowind: Levitation. Why the hell was it taken out? It added a whole new level to variety, combat, exploration and travel. I call shenanigans of BGS for taking it out. SHENANIGANS!

As a side note:

NO QUEST ARROW!!! That damned thing completely ruins the need to explore and figure things out for yourself. Remove it completely or have a way to turn it off.

The Morrowind method didn't force the player to explore the landscape any more than Oblivion's did. In Oblivion and Morrowind you could fast travel to the major cities right off the bat, in Oblivion and Morrowind you had to walk/ride out to the other locations. The main difference in terms of exploration is whether you had to retread the same territory to return.

And then in Oblivion you could return to the location by walking fast travel once you had been there before, but I found the usefulness of that to be rare. There usually weren't two quests in the same dungeon.

[Robert Jackson]

It's not known whether Oblivion's FT lead to an uninspired landscape because anything better than what we got was "unnecessary", or whether the bland and essentially meaningless landscape and interchangability of one ruin for any other, in effect, led to the addition of FT to avoid it.

The inclusion of FT by itself isn't a problem in my mind, but the free and unlimited aspects are major spoilers, and it impacts the overall game design and quest development. As long as the game includes VIABLE alternatives to FT, quests aren't designed to "require" it, and it has some "cost" or limitations (such as with the chance of random encounters, or limited to road networks where you've been and only the major cities where you haven't, or to any "settlement" you've been to before by using a horse), then I'm fine with it.

If it's like OB, where you just point to anyplace shown on your map and click, and you're there, then I've got issues with it. If it's like OB where everything is based on using FT, and there are no alternatives, then that's a sign that the developers are creating a game that they think will sell, rather than a game that they themselves would love to play, and I really don't need to bother buying it, because it will be uninspired garbage.

[Bellismydesi]

Feel I have to repost this:

I've seen many fast travel threads that have have polls about what's the best fast travel method, and it immediatly turns into a heated debate about what people think about fast travel, and what should be in TESV. It often turns into a series of personal attacks, a bear has to eat everyone, and the whole thing goes nowhere.

This isn't that.

Please, don't rant about whether Morrowind beats Oblivion, or vice versa, we all know there's mixed opinions. Just looking for a comprimise. Feel free to create another thread about what's the best system, but not here.

[Kaley X]

The Oblivion system IS the problem. I'm not going to start a comprimise thread that completely ignores my, any many others, biggest problem.


This is just a more developed Morrowind style fast travel system.


Ugh.. You don't get what a comprimise is, do you? We don't all like this system. We're trying to come up with some kind of comprimise that'll work for everyone. This will not work for everyone.

I'm not quite sure you know what a compromise is....

What you have said is "NO! ABSOLUTELY NO OB FT OPTION! CAN'T HAVE IT!" What I have said is "Let them both exist."

The idea behind mine is that there is an actual viable option for in-game travel that doesn't take forever. The problem with OB's system was not that the ability to click and poof was there, but the fact that the only alternative was to walk or run EVERYWHERE. There wasn't even fast transportation between major cities. Thus, instead of spending 100 hours just running around, people used the FT system because running everywhere is tedious. I can see where this is immersion breaking. But that does not mean that the OB FT system can't exist. There just needs to be another viable option for travel in the game.

Thus I gave the more immersive option: fast travel between major cities, fast travel between major cities and settlements in their immediate area (like counties), and then a fairly short walk or horse ride from the settlements to any destination nearby. No two points on the map should be more than 10 minutes apart. This is viable. You can be immersed without being punished heavily.

By the way, aside from major cities, you still had to find all other settlements and other locations (something I think they should keep, so that fast travel between the locations is a reward), so the only thing that changed was the ability to return to a previously visited location more quickly which, in my opinion, is not a bad thing. You have already survived the trip before, there is a good chance you could do it again.

If your last concern is the fact that the OB FT system exists alongside a more developed Morrowind system, then I have to say that your argument is a little ridiculous. That's like saying you won't eat the steak and potatoes on your plate because there are brussel sprouts on it too.

You have your option, OB people have theirs. THAT is a compromise.

[Farrah Lee]

I'm not quite sure you know what a compromise is....

What you have said is "NO! ABSOLUTELY NO OB FT OPTION! CAN'T HAVE IT!" What I have said is "Let them both exist."

The over emphasizing and putting of words into peoples mouths, and changing the way we've actually discussed sure gives credibilaty to your argument. Good job! :goodjob:

The idea behind mine is that there is an actual viable option for in-game travel that doesn't take forever.

You mean like the various methods that have been explained in this thread, that are actually what the thread is about?

If your last concern is the fact that the OB FT system exists alongside a more developed Morrowind system, then I have to say that your argument is a little ridiculous. That's like saying you won't eat the steak and potatoes on your plate because there are brussel sprouts on it too.

This isn't a concern, I was stating that it was a more developed system that Morrowind had. If I said the sky was blue, would I be complaining?

You have your option, OB people have theirs. THAT is a compromise.

It is? Wikipedia says differently:

To compromise is to make a deal where someone gives up part of, or all of its demand.

As you can see, I have given up part of my demand by adding in an option for Oblivion fans that I feel works for everyone. You, on the other hand, just want your system, and no form of comprimise is allowed. If you aren't willing to comprimise, get out of the thread about comprimising.

[Tamika Jett]

As you can see, I have given up part of my demand by adding in an option for Oblivion fans that I feel works for everyone. You, on the other hand, just want your system, and no form of comprimise is allowed. If you aren't willing to comprimise, get out of the thread about comprimising.

You are right, I am not compromising. Instead, I am giving everyone exactly what they want: Morrowind people have a viable option for travel (and, as you said, my version was a more developed Morrowind travel network), and OB people still have exactly what they want as well. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

As for putting words in your mouth, how about you read my previous posts. I liked Morrowind's system better, and I tried for a very long time to run everywhere in OB because I don't like the point and poof method. It just got very old running back to the same places, with annoying, non-challenging encounters along the way, nothing interesting to look at, etc. The OB system is not my system, so don't put words in my mouth.

EDIT: By the way, if you actually look through your travel system, you will realize that you are also not compromising, as you are giving up nothing.

[Ash]

It would seem this "friendly" thread is getting far from it, mainly due to the OP picking arguments with anyone who disagrees with him. Now, we can either get back onto a footing based on constructive discussion or it is going to go the way of all Morrowind vs Oblivion threads - with a big re lock under it.

Leydenne intervened early in this thread - what she said still stands.

[Katie Louise Ingram]

It would seem this "friendly" thread is getting far from it, mainly due to the OP picking arguments with anyone who disagrees with him.

I am? :sadvaultboy:

[Brian Newman]

Hmmm... I really liked Morrowind's travel system, except for one thing:

• Morrowind's fast travel makes getting to somewhere a pain

...but adding mounts does in my opinion fix this issue. A summon mount spell would be an awesome addition to the normal horse.

[Cody Banks]

Hmmm... I really liked Morrowind's travel system, except for one thing:

...but adding mounts does in my opinion fix this issue. A summon mount spell would be an awesome addition to the normal horse.

Or the ability to whistle for one, ala Red Dead Redemption. =) That game has totally spoiled me when it comes to mounts - I'll accept no less!

[Emily Jeffs]

Or the ability to whistle for one, ala Red Dead Redemption. =) That game has totally spoiled me when it comes to mounts - I'll accept no less!

Yes. And characters with conjuration skills should have spells that could summon undead or daedric steeds.

[Jennifer Rose]

Yes. And characters with conjuration skills should have spells that could summon undead or daedric steeds.

And wood elves can beast tongue themselves a deer to ride. I realize that sounds dirty, but that's the name of the spell in Morrowind.

[Sabrina Schwarz]

And wood elves can beast tongue themselves a deer to ride. I realize that sounds dirty, but that's the name of the spell in Morrowind.

Yeah.. that would be really awesome. :drool:

[michael flanigan]

Optional sounds fine

[Laura Samson]

Jump and Levitate would be fine with me.

The Summon Steed also sounds cool. I would Summon a Cliff Racer and annoy people to death.

[RObert loVes MOmmy]

Here I wanted to add some comments and additions to a good list of suggestions. :shifty:

First of all I think that all the "Fast Travel" methods should in a way supply a game map for the players to chose the destination from. You take the map and select your destination from that map, and here it goes:

A. There will be Transporters working at every Mage's Guild who will send you to any other Mage's Guild for a price.

Good suggestion, but one question, does it work for anyone or only the mage guild members?

I think that it should work for anyone, but the fees should vary depending on your status within the guild.

And some special and/or secret destinations should only open-up as you advance your way through the mage guild quest line.

The guild guide would give you a map of the province to look at and select your destination from the map's currently available destination points.

For instance some of the smaller guild halls would not initially have a guild guide, but during the course of the quest-line the player could rescue, convince, or induce a character in any way to act as the guild guide for the place, and from that moment, that destination would be added to the mage guild guide's destination map.

B. There will be carriage/boat services at every main town and many small ones.

Again the players could add new source/destination to the default travel routes by cleaning, opening, safe-guarding, new routes, or convincing new characters to act as traveling services, and so on...

The player talks to the travel service character and then boards the ship/carriage, you talk to the captain or pull the bell cord of the carriage and the captain/coachman supplies you with a map with all his/her available destination marked as a cross on that map.

You select the destination and give the map back to the npc, and then the travel begins. You can stand on the deck or sit on the coach seat, and any time you could select the ship cabin's bed to sleep for the rest of the journey, or select the carriage's seat and select the "sleep" option to bypass the rest of the journey.

But there can be a chance of interruption at some key points of the route, by some events, like a war, hijack, accident, road guard check post, or a new quest trigger, like this:

The ship/carriage stops abruptly at the middle of the route and you have the option to look at the map to see where are you, and you could exit the carriage or come to the deck of the ship, and see what has interrupted your journey.

The captain/coachman tells you that he has seen a commotion and stopped to see what has happened, and you look at the coast/road ahead and see a group of bandit fighting with a coachman and a guard beside a coach in which a lady is screaming, and you could decide to intervene or ignore and tell the captain/coachman to continue with the journey and go back to sleep...

C. There will be a Teleportation Spell/Scroll/Enchantment that will warp you to the nearest Mage's Guild (just like the Intervention Spells from MW).

There can be different types, like the one that teleport you to the nearest cathedral, or nearest mage-guild, or nearest of the province's other significant center of some-cult/activity.

D. There will be a Mark/Recall Spell/Scroll/Enchantment which allows for up to 10 marks. For every active Mark the cost of casting recall increases. To offset this, the Enchantment will be very expensive to create and the scrolls will be uncommon.

Nice options, and some places are hexed/enchanted to prevent the effect of the "Mark" spell.

The mark spell can create a dimensional gate that appears in the middle of the place. You enter one. You can select the destination of another dimensional door from an ethereal map, and jump to that place.

But the journey affects your body and/or mind, so that you might lose some magicka, fatigue, and/or health, and you might wear some other negative effects for a while as well, and those effects become more and more severe with more open gates, so you have to dispel/close a gate when you sense that you do not need it that much.

E. There will be a horse/mount that you can buy that allows map travel while mounted. Chance of being interrupted while travel path is not on main roads.

I don't understand, it you are riding your mount/carriage/boat you can stop any time you like, interrupted or not. :poke:

I might want to see some type of glider/wing that you could find and wear, and use as you jump over a cliff, to travel some distances before you are forced to land.

This system will give everyone what they want.
They should also consider adding something akin to the Dunmer Strongholds in that there will be a super awesome teleportation system, but in order to use it you have to spend some time hunting down the keys.

OK, as I have already suggested in another thread, some type of Ayleid Step, Propyllon Chamber, or any other monument, could be available, and you could get a quest-line from an NPC to find and activate them one by one, so that you enter/step on an activated one a magical map would open for you to select another activated one on that map to jump to with no/minimum negative effects.

Some times you are not given the option to select the destination from the map and you are told that it has malfunctioned and lands you into an unknown dungeon, open or isolate from the outside world.

You can mark the spot and step back and try another time or continue with the current dungeon... :angel:

OK that's it, for now.

Edit: Some more clarifications.

[Cartoon]

Good suggestion, but one question, does it work for anyone or only the mage guild members?

It should be a paid service for non-members and possibly a free service for members of a certain rank. I like the idea of being able to add more destinations thorugh both rank increases and mini-quests/speechcraft.

Again the players could add new source/destination to the default travel routes by cleaning, opening, safe-guarding, new routes, or convincing new characters to act as traveling services, and so on...

The player talks to the travel service character and then boards the ship/carriage, you talk to the captain or pull the bell cord of the carriage and the captain/coachman supplies you with a map with all his/her available destination marked as a cross on that map.

You select the destination and give the map back to the npc, and then the travel begins. You can stand on the deck or sit on the coach seat, and any time you could select the ship cabin's bed to sleep for the rest of the journey, or select the carriage's seat and select the "sleep" option to bypass the rest of the journey.

But there can be a chance of interruption at some key points of the route, by some events, like a war, hijack, accident, road guard check post, or a new quest trigger, like this:

The ship/carriage stops abruptly at the middle of the route and you have the option to look at the map to see where are you, and you could exit the carriage or come to the deck of the ship, and see what has interrupted your journey.

The captain/coachman tells you that he has seen a commotion and stopped to see what has happened, and you look at the coast/road ahead and see a group of bandit fighting with a coachman and a guard beside a coach in which a lady is screaming, and you could decide to intervene or ignore and tell the captain/coachman to continue with the journey and go back to sleep...

How about this: when you choose to carriage/boat/etc. travel you get a map. You pick your destination and then it should ask you if you want to ride it out or rest. Choosing to ride it out means that you actually ride the carriage/boat/etc. and can stop at any time. Choosing to rest means that you will get a loading/travel screen and then arrive at your destination (with a small chance of being interrupted).

There can be different types, like the one that teleport you to the nearest cathedral, or nearest mage-guild, or nearest of the province's other significant center of some-cult/activity.

I think that there should be about 3 types. A Guild Intervention, Divine Intervention, and one more type. That should give plenty of coverage since the main reason for these spells is to get you to a major town where you have better travel options.

Nice options, and some places are hexed/enchanted to prevent the effect of the "Mark" spell.

The mark spell can create a dimensional gate that appears in the middle of the place. You enter one. You can select the destination of another dimensional door from an ethereal map, and jump to that place.

But the journey affects your body and/or mind, so that you might lose some magicka, fatigue, and/or health, and you might wear some other negative effects for a while as well, and those effects become more and more severe with more open gates, so you have to dispel/close a gate when you sense that you do not need it that much.

How about this: each mark you maintain causes the cost of casting recall to increase, plus, if you have a low willpower, maintaining too many marks creates a chance that you will get dropped somewhere completely random when you cast recall.

I don't understand, it you are riding your mount/carriage/boat you can stop any time you like, interrupted or not. :poke:

I might want to see some type of glider/wing that you could find and wear, and use as you jump over a cliff, to travel some distances before you are forced to land.

I meant that when you get on your mount (summoned or purchased) you can simply ride it (like in Oblivion) or you can open your map and fast travel using map markers (just like in Oblivion). When you choose a destination, you are asked whether you want to take the shortest route or the safest route. If you choose safest, the game will map your path to the nearest road and you will have a very small chance of being interrupted. If you choose fastest, the game will map your path directly and you will have a higher chance of being interrupted.

OK, as I have already suggested in another thread, some type of Ayleid Step, Propyllon Chamber, or any other monument, could be available, and you could get a quest-line from an NPC to find and activate them one by one, so that you enter/step on an activated one a magical map would open for you to select another activated one on that map to jump to with no/minimum negative effects.

Some times you are not given the option to select the destination from the map and you are told that it has malfunctioned and lands you into an unknown dungeon, open or isolate from the outside world.

Sounds good. I always like having a random chance to fail, especially if your failure takes you somewhere new.

[Kristina Campbell]

Yes. And characters with conjuration skills should have spells that could summon undead or daedric steeds.

Clannfear, please.

[Kahli St Dennis]

Fast travel or not, each is free to choose.
I consider the fast travels of two manners:
1. To play: pay the travels, failure in the travel...
2. Not to play, but usefully: make and test a mod, test fps...

My mod is useful for the case 2, but can be convenient for the case 1 without complex.

[Motionsharp]

I've seen the suggestion about the next TES game have the Morrowind-style transports as well as the Daggerfall/Oblivion style fast travel. Bethesda already did it that way, once. Daggerfall had both. You had to rise to the top of the mage's guild to access the transport, but it was there. It's where Morrowind got it's concept for the mage guild transport.

With Daggerfall, however, Bethesda listened to comments that fast travel made mage guild transport less than useful, especially since you had to rise high in the mage's guild to even use it. So, Morrowind came out the way it did.

With Morrowind, Bethesda again listened to comments like the ones about having to walk too much. Hence, Oblivion came out the way it did.

And here we are today. Big, firey debate. Past topic got locked and this one's had two warnings? Honestly, Bethesda; It's possible to listen too much and wind up going in circles. :lmao: Don't forget Confucius' wisest saying.. y'know, the one about opinions and the things one sits down on? Like, I do have a system that I preferred, but I'm not gonna say it. It's not the point, anyway.

This post really should've been a multi-selection poll about what kind of features we'd like to see most in a travel system in any future TES game. After all, I seriously doubt that the next TES game will be an exact replica of either the Oblivion or Morrowind travel system. Might as well just vote on specific features and avoid referencing any particular whole system. Might be a little more constructive for Bethesda's planning process.

And wood elves can beast tongue themselves a deer to ride. I realize that sounds dirty, but that's the name of the spell in Morrowind.

:rofl: @ Shades

[Blackdrak]

This post really should've been a multi-selection poll about what kind of features we'd like to see most in a travel system in any future TES game. After all, I seriously doubt that the next TES game will be an exact replica of either the Oblivion or Morrowind travel system. Might as well just vote on specific features and avoid referencing any particular whole system. Might be a little more constructive for Bethesda's planning process.

There have already been a couple of fast-travel threads like that. They all ended in flaming and locking lololololo1

By this point fast travel is just a severely beaten dead horse. Everyone's made up their minds and any further discussion is just repeating ourselves over and over until we get tired and mad.

Judging by what I've seen around here. It doesn't matter what fast travel method Bethesda makes; they're gonna be crucified. Serves them right. They began digging their own murky grave 14 years ago.

[Tom Flanagan]

Judging by what I've seen around here. It doesn't matter what fast travel method Bethesda makes; they're gonna be crucified. Serves them right. They began digging their own murky grave 14 years ago.

Yep. :goodjob:

Doesn't mean we can't try, though.