There is no law that forbids someone aged 13 from playing M rated games in the USA. It is perfectly legal for a parent to buy the game for their child who is under 17 and allow them to play it. Besides, I would imagine a 13 year old would want six in a game more than an advlt. While I don't mind if there are sixual innuendos in a game and such things as "fade to black" sixual encounters, I would hate it being done if it had no meaning or added nothing to the game other than six. If a quest called for it fine but writing a quest just to include it would be lame to me.

My preference would be to spend the time to make such an encounter on other more important aspects of the game.

And btw, let's not get into the "old fans" vs "new fans" debate here. It could be seen as flamebait/flaming and it's just old, tiresome and gets us nowhere in this discussion. Drop that part of it. Not all "old fans" hate this game, I know since I am an "old fan". and I rather enjoy FO3. Please don't generalize about fans of any kind since it will eventually anger someone and the moderators will have to intervene.

Wait you are telling me there is no restrictions in the states keeping kids away from M Rated game? Are you Kidding ME? SO what is the big problem with having that content? If they don't want kids dealing with that stuff like six then have restrictions. Or better yet be a PARENT do your job and keep your own kids away from it. What is the point in the Rating system if there is no restrictions? Unless it's only here in Canada that they have a Rating system and restrictions in place to keep people under 17 from buying M games. If the states have no such system in place then do what Canada does and do it. Games would be so much better and no one will be [censored]ing that their kid is playing a game with six, you can turn to that person and say why did you buy your kid that in the first place did you not see the rating?!

I agree, I mean we didn't need to see people shooting up (or inhaling or whatever the hell you do with jet) in Fallout 2 to see the depravity it caused, with the shuffling, befuddled addicts wandering around. I mean, Nova's a jet addict, and she's more clear headed than half of Megaton. It wouldn't have been too much trouble to make those generic NPCs in Fallout 3 be shuffling and spaced out.

As for six, I think a fade out is as far as we need to go, but even that's not necessary, but it would make sense if there were more than two prosttutes in the entire game. It seems liek You, Dukov and Eulogy are the only people getting any action. This seems to be a problem with recent Bethesda games, with the whole gameworld apparently being a bunch of pious abstainers.


In actual fact I think this whole dumbing down thing is what's killing mature (not necessarily smutty) entertainment in general. Seen an Alien film? And then seen Alien vs Predator? Or the Terminator series, which had Arnie cutting out his own freaking eye, and T2 was a never ending barrage of expletives. With the new Sarah Connor Chronicles its like everybody's aiming for that 12A demographic. Even Fallout 3, which is advlts only in my country, is technically widely known to be played by young teenagers, and Bethesda would want to hold off putting anything in that would stop their parents from buying it for them.

just one step closer towards Idiocracy.

The purpose of the rating is to serve as a guide for parents to ensure a game or a movie is not too mature for their own kid. Some kids are more mature at earlier age than others and in the states that determination is left up to the parent. And it serves parents fairly well. For instance if some game is rated E for everyone I won't need to check out the game to see if my young kids can play it (if I had young kids) but if it is rated M and I have a 13 or 14 year old who really wants the game I can read more about the game and may even play it before buying if for my child. If I think there is content that is too mature for my kid, I can then refuse to buy it for them or to allow them to play it. So it's the rating that counts and the parents that are responsible to do the censoring of games they think too mature but we have a system in place to assist the parents in making the decision.

As for six, there are many mature people who don't want to wade through it in a game. If there is a sixual scene in a book I fast forward through the pages, not because I am a prude but because it is rather boring in books, games and movies. Steamy love scenes are best first hand and rather boring in writing or pixels. Just my opinion btw. :shrug:

BTW, in a fan interview with Todd long before FO3s release he said that if they had a time or quest where six or gambling made sense to add they would not hesitate to do so. So, they left it out because to add it would mean to go out of their way to do so and not because it added to the story or game. Nothing forced for the sake of having it.

edit to add his words:
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=856489

well if your system works so well then why is there a big concern about parental backlash if the game had six and gambling in it? why do I keep seeing "well the parents will be mad and complain?" It is their job to read the box! If your little kid complains then be a parent and say to damn bad. I agree with the other comments I have read, makers of games movies and books are making their product for 13 year olds but saying that 17 to 25 plus will love it. I don't like things that have M rating really being E or T rating, they put the M on so people like me will buy it. I don't want to play kid stuff all the time. Fallout needs six and gambling. Again I am not talking about making fallout into a pormo advlt game I am talking about the levels they had in the past. Bethesda just wants to pump-out generic asixual games. They were not prepared for the amount of diehard rabid fans of Fallout being around so long after the last black isle studio Fallout.

Who is "their" and what makes you think "they" are concerned about parental backlash? FO3 was meant to be rated M, or rather it was expected to be so. And what about six and gambling makes something "mature"? Rather than six making a game mature I find it's the more mature choices or the less than desirable outcomes in quests. It's skipping the lust and going for the difficult decisions. six makes a kid giggle but that slave collar makes them have nightmares.

"their" is Parents and it is the job of parents to make sure kids don't play games with content they think is inappropriate for kids. I keep seeing Post like "well they can't have six, gambling, drug use, because the parents will be mad at the makers and the stores so on and so forth". So if the System works so well then why is there a feared parental backlash by the parents. If the makers don't worry about such backlash then why don't they add the content? Old Fallout fans want it. The poll shows people want it or don't care if it is in the next game. So why not have it?

Kids should not be playing M rated not till they are 17 if they are and they are getting bad things from it don't blame the makers or the store or anyone else but you the parent.

You have a popint there; The Pitt was the most mature part of Fallout 3, and that had no six in it at all.

I don't think it is feared by the developers.

But you seem to be equating maturity to six and violence which I don't think it is. Maturity does not come from the number of f-bombs you can manage to drop, but rather from the subject matter that you choose and how you explore it. A lot of the mature themes that you will get to in a video game are the result of deep stories, and the result of complex relationships and the result of multiple decisions that you need to make throughout the game and exploring subject matter in a sophisticated fashion. six and gambling do not make a game mature so unless it fits in their story or in the complex relationships prevented don't you think it would be pretty lame to include it? If it doesn't fit it would be immature to add such in my opinion.

And one poll in one section of one forum does not equate to "everyone wants it." If it serves the purpose and is needed, they would have added it, it didn't so they did not.

Well now you have hit on a good point friend if I may call you a friend. Playing fallout 3 I have noticed a big absence of mature themes. I see little in the way of deep stories that come from complex relationships. There are few multiple decisions that can be made that are need to make throughout the game to explore the subject matter in a sophisticated fashion. Quests are pretty much cut and dry do or do not. Fallout 3 does not have the feel of Fallouts past. There is little grey area in decision making during quests. They cut out the post apocalyptic feel of the games of old, they can help bring that back by bring back the feel of the wasteland by having junkies look and act like junkies, having the gambling the prostitution. It will be a good start.

I am not trying to be an ass sorry if I come off looking like an ass.

And that, my friend, is another topic of discussion entirely for another thread. And I am sure we might have differing opinions there too, but hey...different strokes for different folks. Anyway, let's not drag this topic there but rather discuss "six and gambling" and if it should be in future games and if six and gambling equate to "mature" subject matter.

:) well where I live if a game is M rated kids can't buy it. Parents can buy it for them but if the parent later complains about the content, it is TS for them. If you feel your child is mature and can deal with six then go ahead just don't complain later. Ted Bundy I think you may know of him once said that it is not violence that makes kids turn into him, it is being exposed to six at an early age. So I feel that having six in a game does make it mature. Fallout should not go down the pormographic road but stay at the level it has always had in the other fallout titles. Gambling has always been in fallout and should be in it again. I do agree if you feel your child can deal with the content and you are a good parent and have sat down with them and explained six drugs gambling and violence to them and after all that then by all means let them play. Just don't blame others if your child does something bad "because fallout made me do it."

Bottom line Styles is that my parental choices for my children are none of your concern, and nor should you be "advising" me or anyone else for that matter, on how to raise their kids. Your comments take a very judgemental stance, and there's only one being that has the right to do that - and it's not you.

As summer has tried to explain to you many times, "M Rated" in the United States indicates that it is intended for mature audiences, and that parental discression is advised. How on EARTH would you know how mature my daughter is? How would you have ANY WAY of knowing anything at all about me or my family? You don't, you can't, and you should mind your own business and Stick to the Topic. At the very least, stay out of my personal business and adhere to the forum rules on this kind of flaming.

The discussion is about six and gambling in video games - lets keep it there, and not personal.

Miax

yes I agree with you. you are the parent I have no right to tell you anything about raising your kids. I am very sorry to have up set you, please read me last coment before this one. I think I made my point clear as I could with out telling people how to raise their kids. Again am sorry to have upset you. my early remarks were very harsh and rude I am sorry, but as the conversation went on between Summer and I. I towned down my remarks and agreed with you on those points. you are the parent I have no right to tell you how to raise your kids.

Now back on topic please.

It seems like a massive cliche to include everything in the game. I think if they were to add six to it, they should just skip any possible cutscenes, or do it along the lines of Dragon Age: Origins. Fable went a tad too far, I think.

Why would people be gambling in a wasteland?

"Why would people be gambling in a wasteland?"

Why do people gamble today? People gamble it is a vice it is an addiction. People will always Gamble even in a nuclear wasteland. Gambling was in the other fallouts. It was a skill. If you were good at it you could make fast caps! why not have it again? The next game is New Vegas they have to have gambling in that one. They should have all the human vices talked about in this topic. What happens in vegas stays in vegas. Vegas is the real Vice City but without the killing, but in the up coming game they can add that.

For gambling to really make much sense in FO3 it would have to take place in a bar or a saloon and would be represented as more of a side game which, doesn't really appeal to me. Oblivion had gambling and while it was a fun little side game for a few minutes just to check it out, it really added nothing mature or very interesting to the game IMHO. I am rather glad they did not include it in such a fashion. In New Vegas, it would be almost mandatory I think.

That is something fallout is missing "side games" things to do that are out side of quest. I am not saying it would fix everything not by a long shot but to have it in fallout 3 in some way. In the other fallouts Gambling it was mostly Craps tables but with F3's graphics they can have many forms of gambling, pretty much all kinds. It would be cool to run into a Raider not trying to kill you but more interested in playing Dice or something.

I respect your opinion, but not choosing to express yourself artistically because your afraid of what someone might do really defeats the whole purpose. And it being a bestseller isn't a good argument in itself for why it should or should not include these elements in game that I agree should have them since human vices would be best displayed in a post-apocalyptic setting where there isn't any entity to try and uphold morality.

GOD NO

If there's six in it, than Sony won't allow it on their systems. -.-'

Gambling, maybe.

I think the common consensus in this topic is that the six would be a fade to black scene

That's an exaggeration. sixual content, drug use and gambling aren't strangers to M rated games... not even in this day and age. Grand Theft Auto is a lot worse than anything Bethesda would probably do, and while GTA has received negative backlash in the past it's still a game that is played by adolescents world wide.

yeah, that's why there's six in the god of war games, and why sony's publishing heavy rain...