Hi

I cant seem to find anything on how Tiber Septim became Talos and i am to lazy tried to do a major search.

So if you could help me out that would be great

http://imperial-library.info/content/rise-tiber-septim

In short, he pretended to be a god (Lorkhan, specifically) until he mythically became one. Its called "mantling."

Yes yes it is all very good but it don't say HOW he became a one of the Nine Divines :shrug:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-shezarr-and-divines should get you thinking when you're less tired.

Yes it does. There's no discussion of rituals or mechanisms because that's not important. It would be worse if there were, because then it wouldn't be magic.

I don't think he physically became a god... there wasn't some kind of transformation or ceremony. It's just that he did so much awesome that the people, after his death, decided to worship him as a god. Not sure that's correct, just my interpretation from the little lore I've read.

Naw, man, that summary aligns nearly pitch perfect with Mr. Quimper's assertion that Tiber was mantling Lorkhan. Think of the mystical power of Reenactment.

What did Lorkhan do to solidify the plans for the Mundus? Oh, I dunno, he tricked, promised, betrayed, and made concessions to the various "rulers" of the etada, right? Sounds like the summary, only a few existence lenses down.

And, just like the varying accounts of how that Convention and its consequences have become murky with Time and myth, so too is Tiber's ascension to the first true Emperor of all of Tamriel. Accident? No way.

As above, so below, and that's how you do it. Especially when there's a hole just ready to fill.

Hope that helps.

The Arcturian Heresy, while a flawed document and somewhat too simple for this issue, gives you an idea of how such a thing might be done.



Hm, someone getting betrayed, and someone getting mauled in a torso-related way by way of payment. If you have read the creation myths necessary to understand how everything works, that should sound familiar. With an avatar of Lorkhan, an immense soulgem meant to power the Brass God Numidium and the ruler of cosmically dominant White-Gold Tower all in the mix, you can see how such a confrontation is more than a soap opera.

A lot of the times, in Tamriel, this actually literally makes someone a god, especially if the people come to associate the person with acts and rituals associated with a pre existing deity. It doesn't matter if he was just a man - and a liar and a thief at that - who lied and stole his way into power, and who was assisted by a Blade who was under strict orders from a pig. What matters is that people remember and believe in him as an avatar of Shor Who Goes Missing. It's the same basic concept with Vivec, who was literally born from an egg as a fully grown God-Elf while simultaneously having lived as a mortal Netchiman's son. What's important is the story of him that people accept and believe.

I am not sure this question was fully addressed...

If 'Arkay the God of Birth and Death' is to be believed, Arkay for instance was fully aware when he was converting into a god. Infact he agreed to the offer. So you have an actual moment of decision.



The same thing holds even when the elevation comes via a curse: .Mehrunes Dagon was cursed from being a leaper demon into becoming the Daedric Prince of Destruction. again you have a moment of decision. Mehrunes realizes Alduin has caught him and he will have to absorb punishment

In the Shivering Isles, the PC elects to become a god


Every time you look a the phenomenon there is always a moment of choice.

Where is this moment in the case of Tiber Septim?

If you were to ask Tiber Septim face to face to describe himself will he say he was emperor or will he say he is a god?

To quote "Varieties of Faith in the Empire:
"Tu'whacca (Tricky God): Yokudan god of souls. Tu'whacca, before the creation of the world, was the god of Nobody Really Cares. When Tall Papa undertook the creation of the Walkabout, Tu'whacca found a purpose; he became the caretaker of the Far Shores, and continues to help Redguards find their way into the afterlife. His cult is sometimes associated with Arkay in the more cosmopolitan regions of Hammerfell."

Arkay was an unnamed, insignificant et'ada before the creation of Mundus, where he became the guide to the afterlife (a psychopomp, basically). He was undefined before the concept of mortal death. The story could be a metaphor or literal, but it's probably someone mantling Arkay (the asking is unique to Arkay's mantling because the unnamed et'ada was asked to take part in the creation of Mundus).

They march on the East, the battlemages surrender before their armies, and they take the Citadel. Before Cuhlecain can be crowned, Hjalti secretly murders him and his loyalist contingent.

Now he's taken the Chim-el Adabal and White Gold. He's accomplished godhood, in the order of Reman Cyrodiil. If you could have asked Qin Shi Huang the same question, what would he have said?

So based on MK's text is should draw conclusion that Tiber had (let people) to re-write his history, his birthplace and by thus make happenings murky to seal his position as Talos and ruler of Tamriel.

Earlier on i was under impression Talos is Triune of it's kind, Zurin, Hjalti, Ysmir. Underking is part of Talos, just as Vivec has his Muarta (kind of). But after reading MK's text i'm not so sure anymore, all seems to point out to Tiber being only one who became Talos.

How did he become Talos?

Who made him the offer?

Ascension is not a small matter, and requires a vast expansion of consciousness

So how did it happen with Talos?

He became Talos by same method as Lorkhan made Mundus. Tiber walked like Lorkhan/Shor until he became Talos (Talos is aspect of Lorkhan). Lorkhan betrayed, killed, was killed and that sort of things to make Mundus. Tiber tried and evidently prevailed in re-enacting these events. MK pointed out to murky understandment of the mythic events when Lorkhan made Mundus, which seems to be one of it's founding ideas. Same stuff happens with Tiber Septim as there is lots of controversial stuff in various historywritings conserning Tiber Septim. Such as book named Arcturian Heresy. Only thing which Tiber Septim didn't seem to do was to die... Or maybe he did, that question has been asked in pages of Arcturian Heresy. And i think i understand that Arcturian Heresy isn't just pile of made-up fairy-stories but it's information is just as correct as any other text there is, those events are supposed to be murky.

What was the precise moment when he became Talos? Making of Mantella or using Numidium against Altmer, those two would be my guesses. Probably later, which made him different from other Shor/Lorkhan-wannabes as that was the point when whole Tamriel fell under his rule.

He wasn't offered position as Talos. He grabbed it.

This is my latest understandment (just few hours old). I wouldn't hold my breath.

No one corrected me? MUAHUAHUAHUAHUA! I'm not anymore drunken librarian distilling own rotgut in darkest corners of Imperial Library. I'm now scholar! Maybe even PSIJJJJ. Atleast i fell Power razing through my veins... Well, Could be rotgut as well.

But anyhow i have to get back to distilling devices before they blow up. Would hate to loose all that precious nectar of gods. And Obscure texts as well.

Wow take it easy sport :tongue:

How did he become Talos?

Did he chose the path or did he snatched it?

Why did he gave a lucky coin to the Nerevarine?

So many questions, so little answers!

By acting like Lorkhan/Shezarr/Shor. How else did he become the new Shezarr in the Cyrodiilic pantheon?

I'd say Tiber walked it unknowingly at first, realized it quickly, and worked towards it.


I'm pretty sure he tells you why, you just don't realize the gravity of his words till...sometime after Oblivion.

second seems to have a pretty good idea.

In short, by manteling Lorkhan/Shezarr/Shor.





He knows that Empire won't last long. His words "Time for something young and new" are intresting. I think he means that in Skyrim, Empire will be reborn into something new (Yes I know there is already an "Empire").

Well, Titus Mede is trying to rebuild the fallen empire, but he's not a dragonborn like Tiber, nor of divine birth like Reman I. He's an ordinary guy, who came from being a warlord to emperor when he took the Imperial City. It's been a messy start, and it doesn't help that the Thalamor has been sending terrorists to destabilize the region. But he's trying. Who knows, the Mede empire may bring something different to the table.

Perhaps I'm missing some info on Skyrim (seriously if I am please point me to it) but from the Trailer I thought that the PC which is a Dragonborn is an obvious mantler of Tiber Septim and a re-start of the empire.

Also, the dragons, they are no coincidence! We've been pixelhunting for them since Daggerfall!

Dragonborn is lineage, as evident from the Septim line, and god given as far as I remember.

And there is also this:
"Another byproduct of mythopoeia is the process of mantling, or acting like a deity in existence so that those perceiving the actor cannot tell the difference between the ‘mantler’ and the ‘mantlee.’ Such was the process by which Tiber Septim achieved divinity, becoming the Cyrodiilic god we know as Talos. Talos and the Underking acted in a way that mythically echoed the struggle between Lorkhan/Shezzar and Auri-El/Akatosh. Thus, did Tiber claim the ninth place in the Cyrodiilic pantheon where Shezzar had not been."

From http://www.imperial-library.info/content/mythopoeia-and-aurbic-consciousness

So, can anyone mantle a God? If all it takes is mimicing them, then why can't joe farmer from Menevia in High Rock read about Lorken and work towards it?