EDIT: This looks like it may just be a corrupt save.



Don't get me wrong I'm loving New Vegas so far, but one thing is really frustrating me, and that is the lack of opportunities to be evil.

I have never played Fallout 1 or 2, so can only compare with 3 - From what I remember, a lot of the sidequests allowed you to make a choice mid quest as to whether you wanted the outcome to be good or evil. The megaton bomb would perhaps the most obvious example, but also paradise falls, little lamplight, lincoln memorial...etc etc. Help someone the majority of the way through their quest, and then screw them over at the last moment.

NV doesnt seem to have many that are like this. It's almost like the only way to be evil is to mercilessly gun down everyone you meet. Which (imo) not a very fun way to play the game from an evil perspective. Maybe the occasional opportunity to fleece someone out of their caps, but thats about it. It seems the options we have are to be good or neutral. I steal pretty much everything, so my karma is way down and also kill anyone if I know they arent part of quests anymore - but I'm getting bored with this now. I want to be evil through inventive quest options. It started of okay with Goodsprings, and then the Powder Gangers...but went downhill rapidly.

A couple of examples of where I've been dissapointed so far:



Maybe I'm looking at Fallout3 with rose tinted glasses, but I remember the sidequests being a lot more fun, a lot more thought out, and a lot more dynamic. It's almost as though they just forgot to put the evil dialogue options in. I've played about 20hours with a good character, and 20hours as 'evil'. Playing the good guy has been a lot more rewarding and enjoyable.

Thoughts?

If you want to be "evil" side with the legion. Don't expect the game to present baseless sociopathy. It's more grey than MY SOUL IS SO BLACK OH TORMENT.

Aye, legion quests could help out there.

But beyond that and maybe some random smaller ganger quests fallout NV does have a poor track record for having even remotely evil quests.

Regarding the quest in your spoiler tags with the slaves, you totally can do that. I did it yesterday. Might require a speech check, I don't remember, but I did exactly what you were asking for.

Well damn.

Something must be fubar'd in my game then, because I havent seen any of these options available to me. Me speech is about 90 currently. Also have 2 quests relating to Cass, but can't advance either of them by talking to her.

I've put in a few mods, but nothing that affect quests like that.

:brokencomputer:

Go and do the Boomers questlines, you can send an innocent girl into a field full of artillery fire

There are plenty of evil options in this game, but it deals more in shades of grey so it's up to the player what they deem to be evil.

Yeah you can do the sabotage yourself, but uh... I didn't get the option with the slaves either, and I was pissed off when it happened. The 1.01 patch wasn't out then so maybe that fixed it.

As for Cass, what quests are you talking about?

The quests I've got her are the Crimson Caravan one and the Van Graff quest. But I don't have any dialogue options with her for these quests. I don;t even have the speech check to get her to quit caravanning.

I think I might start over and see what happens.

The Crimson Caravan one? Do you have the one that you get by talking to Cass first and she tells you to go talk to Crimson Caravan, or the one that Crimson Caravan Leader asked you to buy out Cass?

The second one. I can pick up and complete the first one np

Then your savegame is bugged XD

Eh, overall, I think the lack of evil options IS a problem.

There's a ton of "NCR dominates" threads here, full of people (like myself) complaining that the game's extremely one-sided towards 'good' characters, and then the people who say that if you're a sociopath then you shouldn't have any fun playing the game (not their words, but that's the basic gist of it -- aka, "I liked NCR, hate the Legion, so too bad for you.").

Someone apparently thinks that everyone's idea of playing an evil character is running and gunning down everything...

For that matter, why is it necessary to be either "super evil" or virtuous and good?

The game assumes the same thing for the PC as it assumes for all the NPCs ... that you do things for reasons. What possible reason would you have to blow up the ghoul rockets? Besides "I want to kill them, it's funny"? If you want to kill them, you can already kill them. You don't need a quest option for it.

Note that I play one character who is very savage and, well, evil. I make sure to take the most evil options on a lot of quests ... and when there isn't one, I generally just kill someone, fail the quest, and feel better.

I did think it was a little weird when I got the quest to get Primm a new sheriff without volunteering to. But, hell, I didn't want law and order there so I just ignored it. If you see a good guy quest you don't want to do, walk away! There are plenty where you can be a jerk.

A note on the Caravan quests ... other things need to happen in other quests for new steps to appear in the Caravan quests. Many quests are interlocking and - and this is important - many quests have mutually exclusive stages. Doing some things will lock out doing other things, permanently. You can't do every quest in the game in one playthrough. So if you see a quest that you can't proceed with right now, forget about it and do something else. Maybe it will open up later and maybe it won't. And don't get upset when you see QUEST FAILED. It will happen; there's no avoiding it. Learn to love it.

Some of us just want to see the world burn. (insert Joker smiley here)

To be honest, I had a great deal of fun in FO3 tricking the kid from the fire ant quest into selling himself to Paradise Falls, giving drugs to the addict and pushing the priest off the ledge in Rivet city, etc. FNV seems lacking on things like that.

And on a related note, why do I get good karma every time I pop a feral ghoul? It's making being the devil of the wastelands very difficult. <_<

If you really want to be evil, all you need to do is shoot people on sight as soon as you can and/or steal everything you can get your hands on. You may not want to do it at level 1 but do so as soon as you can get some decent weapons.

Sure, I mean, I can see where the players who want evil quests are coming from. It just ... doesn't really fit the Fallout world to build a huge amount of content geared for characters who wake up every morning going, "Oh boy, I hope I can kick some puppies today." Fallout 3 actually suited this kind of thing better, because it was a very static world with lots of little towns where nothing much was happening and no one was really struggling. In an environment like that it makes more sense for people to be idle enough to develop silly personality defects like that. In F:NV (especially in hardcoe mode), I get a much stronger sense of struggle. The conflicts are real. No one wants to blow up a town just to be a dike because they have nothing better to do. Resources actually feel limited and there just isn't enough territory to go around. People wake up worried about survival. So the conflicts are there, but this time they have good reasons.


Feral Ghouls are Evil. Says so right in the Monster Manual. You kill 'em, that makes you Good.

A little more seriously, FGs are a threat to everything around them and do no good for themselves or others. They are purely a destructive force. It can be assumed that their own existences are torturous even to themselves and they are literally better off dead. So killing a FG, even if he's not threatening anyone, is still a humane act. Much more evil to let them go on suffering as mindless horrors, don't you think?

There are a [censored]load of "evil" options, so I don't know what people are complaining about. I haven't explored many of them, because my first playthrough is usually more on the "good" side, but I plan to be much more conniving and selfish in my next game.

Also, on the matter of the game seeming NCR-dominated, that's because developers prefer to funnel people towards a "main" or canon ending (I'm not sure if the NCR ending is the canon one, but it's certainly the most common one). In a way, this is meant to provide a more linear story for people who prefer that sort of game. You have to go out of your way to find the alternate/evil paths because they can often be more difficult, seeing as most of the Wasteland tends to be NCR-friendly.

We aren't trying to funnel people toward a specific ending, and if Steam stats are correct, NCR is not the most common ending (it's Yes Man/independent).

Watching the slaves run thinking their collar is disabled would be awesome.

Oddly, the game doesn't feel that way at all to me. I guess there are a lot of quest locations with NCR presence, but for the main story I feel much more funneled to the Legion and Mr. House.

The critical crisis point of the game is So far, none of my three characters has been able to avoid facing this crisis point and choosing (temporarily, at least) between House and Caesar. As far as I can tell it's absolutely necessary to advance the plot. The only way I can think of to avoid it is to prematurely end conversation with Benny back at the Tops and gun him down midsentence. (Please correct me if I'm mistaken!) Of course, you can walk away from the above mentioned crisis point and do whatever you want with the results, but it really feels to me like the NCR is a distant third in the "force you to work with these guys" race.

There isn't even a quest to go meet the NCR Ambassador, who seems to be the main quest giver for the NCR storyline. You get your hand held straight to House and Caesar; all you get for the Ambassador is some guy yelling at you on the street and giving you a note which immediately gets filed in your ten billion Pip Boy Notes file and is easily forgotten.

Zombra:



And yes, there is a quest to go meet the NCR Ambassador - 'Things That Go Boom'. You should get it one of the first times you visit the Strip.

Weird. I got the guy delivering the note, but I never saw a quest attached to it.


Thanks, that's good to know. I just wish there was a little more breadth in that section. Still seems to boil down to one incredibly narrow crisis point. It's really one of the situations in which I wish a Speech check was offered in parallel with the option to blow a guy away

In "come fly with me" talk Chris Haversam(confused human/ghoul) about fixing the rockets.[code][/spoiler]spoiler
Pass a Speech(50) check, you can convince him that he is human. If you want him to take revenge, he will ask you for 3 Sugar Bombs to sabotage the engines, in addition to the parts. a female character with the Black Widow perk will work too. Seven Sugar Bombs at Dino Bite Gift Shop in Novac.

There are evil options, it just that there's a lot of grey ones (at lest on the surface).