Full armour sets = laziness : V

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:09 am

Is it just me or does Bethesda seem to be back peddling on features? I didn't know that it was so common to find an almost entire Armour set in a ridden down dungeon, I really doubt that it would have been impossible to make each combination of Greaves and Armour work without major clipping issues. What do you guys think?

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:45 am

Is it just me or does Bethesda seem to be back peddling on features? I didn't know that it was so common to find an almost entire Armour set in a ridden down dungeon, I really doubt that it would have been impossible to make each combination of Greaves and Armour work without major clipping issues. What do you guys think?

No, the merge is good. Better visuals, more detail, faster rendering.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:39 am

If you read the Q&A it wasn't a matter of clipping:

Matt: "The armor system is very similar to Oblivion’s. The main difference is that the upper and lower body armors, the cuirass and greaves, have been combined into one piece. This helps create armor styles that have the look we needed for Skyrim. In most of the Nordic designs we created, the upper armor would completely cover the lower armor, making it unnecessary. We get much better visual results combining those pieces, and it renders a lot faster too, so we can put more people on screen, so that was an easy tradeoff for us. We can also make a lot more armors now, so the number and variation types are more than we’ve ever had."

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:03 am

No, the merge is good. Better visuals, more detail, faster rendering.

So losing functionality is good for a game? I thought oblivion and morrowind were specifically famous for their customization... This isn't dragons age 2

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:50 pm

Kill somebody get all of their armor.

It was never hard getting a full set...

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:38 pm

No, the merge is good. Better visuals, more detail, faster rendering.

This. And more variety, I expect many variations of each set.

Why ask for 40 decent combinations when you could have 40 high quality sets?

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:05 am

They finaly gave good enough reasons to me for their decision, so it seems to me we lose very little for a big gain.
I'll take better game rendering, more enemies on screen, and more variety of armor over seperate greeves and curiss any day.
I'm behind them 100% on this one.
There answers for crossbows and spears were better this time too but I'm still on the fence.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:40 am

Because I like the idea of fur greaves with my daedric armor. Problem with that?

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:41 am

They worked on Dragons for two years....its not laziness its down right omittance.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:44 am

Is it just me or does Bethesda seem to be back peddling on features? I didn't know that it was so common to find an almost entire Armour set in a ridden down dungeon, I really doubt that it would have been impossible to make each combination of Greaves and Armour work without major clipping issues. What do you guys think?

It's just you,
and the countless others who wish to join you.

Read the interview, for Heaven's sake.
This part sounded reasonable, solid and provided some very attendable reasons.

You're hard pressed to contest their reasons.

Calling it laziness is just lazy from your part.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:27 am

Also, cuirass and greaves =/= a full armor set unless I have begun to seriously misinterpret what a full armor set is. Although since this is a feature in a TES game I am unsurprised that this is among the first sort of thread I see.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:07 am

They did say this is going to allow them to make more variants than they've ever done. When you think about it, the freedom in MW's armor system wasn't really necessary. I won't lie, I miss it, but really all they've done is eliminate the freedom to make really butt ugly armor combinations (and possibly make yourself OP with enchants). Chances are you had another layer of clothing covering it up anyway. That said, I do really hope they handle robes/skirts the way they did in MW though. ):

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:51 pm

Their explanation for it being based on the art/concept of Nordic armor was apt enough for me. I can't question the merit of this decision though because I don't know how difficult it is or isn't to tinker with meshes and skeletal frame work. Guess I'm just going with the flow for this feature.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:27 am

I would rather them focus on making the world feel more alive and polished. It is going to be the same old argument. Yes, more can be better sometimes but not always. More NPC's and faster renders sounds better to me.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:50 pm

As long as they don't do the same with clothes...

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:03 pm

Is it just me or does Bethesda seem to be back peddling on features? I didn't know that it was so common to find an almost entire Armour set in a ridden down dungeon, I really doubt that it would have been impossible to make each combination of Greaves and Armour work without major clipping issues. What do you guys think?

Don't recall any clipping on witcher 2

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:55 am

If you read the Q&A it wasn't a matter of clipping:

Matt: "The armor system is very similar to Oblivion’s. The main difference is that the upper and lower body armors, the cuirass and greaves, have been combined into one piece. This helps create armor styles that have the look we needed for Skyrim. In most of the Nordic designs we created, the upper armor would completely cover the lower armor, making it unnecessary. We get much better visual results combining those pieces, and it renders a lot faster too, so we can put more people on screen, so that was an easy tradeoff for us. We can also make a lot more armors now, so the number and variation types are more than we’ve ever had."

Indeed.

Please read everything before whining; armor will be even more complex, if this is true.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:52 am

Is it just me or does Bethesda seem to be back peddling on features? I didn't know that it was so common to find an almost entire Armour set in a ridden down dungeon, I really doubt that it would have been impossible to make each combination of Greaves and Armour work without major clipping issues. What do you guys think?

i agree....kinda Bethesda arnt lazy they THINK this is a good idea by making gameplay better over how your character looks

but i googled Greaves and all i saw are Knee pads.
My Playstyle is running around and being sneaky wearing only pants and boots, will i be able to do this in Skyrim?

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:40 pm

Kill somebody get all of their armor.

It was never hard getting a full set...

Ha.. yeah, pretty much. Not like all of us weren't walking around with a full suit of glass armor at level 20 in Oblivion because the stuff was everywhere. Ebony, too. That's where Skyrim needs to improve - just make good armor more rare. And then with the added ability to upgrade armor with smithing... that sounds better than Oblivion already, even with one less armor slot.

Sounds like art direction had a really big influence, though, which I find interesting. One of the main reasons why they merged was it made more sense with the Nordic design.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:01 am

As long as they don't do the same with clothes...

Agree I can accept Curiass with Greaves but if they combine Shirt and Pants I will be angry.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:34 am

the number and variation types are more than we’ve ever had

That means more armor variation than Morrowind.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:26 pm

So losing functionality is good for a game? I thought oblivion and morrowind were specifically famous for their customization... This isn't dragons age 2

We're losing useless functionality to enable better functionality; faster rendering, more characters on screen, armor that looks better thematically and aesthetically, more kinds of armor ...

So we lose one thing from the previous games in order to gain a multitude of things the previous game didn't have. That's good for a game.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:47 am

Why ask for 40 decent combinations when you could have 40 high quality sets?

I think this is the crux of it. Yes, I like to be able to mix up my looks when playing but so long as this reduction in the number of armor combinations is met with an increase in the number of "full" sets, I won't mind.

Ultimately I just want to look like a BAMF and if this new system lets me do that, I will be happy.

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:07 am

They worked on Dragons for two years....its not laziness its down right omittance.

They also said that there would be a great radiant A.I in oblivion that didn't cause the npc's to kill themselves by accident and even showed a video of it, too bad it wasn't utilized.

so functionality loss and customization is ok if it gains you an extra frame per second? What if they took side quests out of the game would it be reasonable to you if they said "well we wanted to improve the main quest so we took out all the side quests"

» Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:42 am

I can actually say it's OK if it actually helps the rendering, a lot. That way, it's an acceptable loss.