So this is just a grab bag of questions I've had about Skyrim after a hundred plus hours of playing it.

1) It seems extremely likely that the Throat of the World is Snow-Throat Tower. What is its Stone? Dark supposition: what if Alduin is the Stone of Snow-Throat? This would definitely establish a pattern wherein the events of each game since at least Morrowind has resulted in the destruction of a Tower.

2) The solar orb in the Silent City in Blackreach is utterly unique--do we know anything about it?

3) It seems likely that the Thalmor are advancing the agenda MK suggested in his Altmeri missive and have demanded the abolishment of the worship of Talos in order to erase him. In what way does the existence of Talos hinge upon his worship? Was the Empire unaware of this motivation? If this is effective towards the goal of destroying Talos and the Empire was aware of it, why would they voluntarily take an action which could result in the wholesale destruction of man?

1. Nobody knows for sure. However, many people think the Nords are the stone of it due to it being apparently where they originated from. Your theory is possible though, with the time rift making the connection between the two while Aldiun was sent through time. However, I do not think Alduin the world-eater would want to be a stone for a tower for the world he is eating, so if the Gods created towers by giving pieces of themselves to make it, Akatosh gave Alduin. There does need to be more discussion on what the stone of snow-throat is - although I would like it to be Alduin due to the theory I have just created and the fact the barriers between Nirn and Oblivion will weaken.

2. Well, we don't really know much about the Skyrim dwemer other than they have similar technology to other dwemer and what they did to the Falmer, so I doubt it. From my playthrough of Skyrim, a few quests send you there, but none talk about Blackreach in any detail

3. From what i've gathered, the Thalmor are trying to make everyone on Nirn gods again like in the time before Tamriel was created. I don't know how they are going to do this, however Talos is the hero-god of men (mortal creatures) so mortals cannot cease to be (and become et'Ada) if there is a god made for them (thats my confusing answer, i'm sure somebody else can come up with a better one). I'd imagine quite a few people in the Empire knew this motivation, but quite a good few didn't. The reason the smarter ones voluntarily allowed it was because :

a. It stopped the Great War which I'd imagine had alot of casualties.
b. They passed of the Thalmor's beliefs as a load of rubbish (which isn't hard to do)
c. Talos' bloodline no longer rules anyway, so saw the god Talos as weak.
d. Some began to like the belief of the Thalmor. It wouldn't just be elves who became et'Ada, but all mortals, and so I imagine a few individuals (probably those in power) would like the idea of godly powers.

Except for mankind. The missive explicitly states this.

1. Duh. Sorry for that, but we've known that since the concept of Towers was first given to us. As per it's Stone, we don't know. From it's interactions with the world in the past, it has something to do with Fate/Prophecy/Time/the Annunciation of the Ascendancy of Man. Paarthurnax/Alduin could be it's stone (Paarthurnax a stand-in stone), but so could the Voice (I'm beginning to think that it is what enables the Thu'um to be used by Man, but am working on my evidence), so could the Greybeards... just Gah! Too many possibilities and too few givens.

2. If you noticed, it got dimmer at night and brighter at day. The dwemer built it to simulate a day/night cycle. After that, nope.

3. If the Siege of Alinor brought about the more progressive elements of Altmeri society (working with man, working to better their position in the world, you know, mannish ideas), then the Thalmor is the conservative swing away from that (and subsequent purging) and back into very old elvish ideas on the world. They wish to purge all progressive mannish ideas and return themselves to immortality and Aldmeris. Chief among them is that Divine Reinforcement of the mannish ideas that Tiber Septim achieved when he became Talos. The only way to kill an idea is to get everyone to forget about it. A tall order. Some would say foolishly impossible.

If you're a god, you're no longer a man. If you're so effin' happy with godhood that you could literally never imagine going back to being a mortal, mankind has been erased from the pattern of possibility. Sure, the Thalmor might have to kill you first, but that doesn't mean the end result is bad for you.

In order to erase the possibility of man would'nt everyone who knows about man have to go.Altmer included?

No, they would simply have to be brainwashed into thinking that men were not people.

First, I'm relatively sure that man is born of Nirn, not Aetherius, and as such will not be freed to godhood by its unraveling, but annihilated utterly. If it isn't true, it seems more likely still the Altmer believe it to be so.

Second, the text says to remove man from the "Pattern of Possibility" so that they would be forgotten. What this means is unclear, of course, but it definitely indicates the process would not involve the destruction of those who know of man but some sort of selective editing of reality or collective memory (if there is a dividing line between the two).

I'm simply saying it's possible Snow-Throat and the Throat of the World are not the same thing. That seems unlikely, but as far as I know the connection is never made explicitly, and as I noted we don't know what the Stone is.

Did not notice this. Interesting. I am aware of its connection to a certain dragon, though.


I do find it curious that the document suggests the existence of man can be forgotten entirely through some unexplained process, but the existence of Talos can not be forgotten in the same way. Perhaps this is the protection offered Talos through worship.

I thought it meant man as in people who believe Lorkhan would be their savour, or refer to all mortals by Man. *shrug*

Didn't one of the myths say Hermaeus Mora tried to trick the proto-Nords of Atmora into becoming Aldmeri? Is there a possible link to the Thalmor agenda?

Yep.
"Mora" is such a fascinating word. I just noticed that it's in "Balmora" today (I'm really slow), which apparently means "Stone Forest".
It's so thrilling to find this added layer of depth to vvardenfell after all these years.

I doubt it. Everything we've seen so far suggests that the Altmer ideas of everyone being a depowered Aedric spirit are full of crap. Even Boethiah went out of his/her way to expose the old Aldmeri ideas for the BS that they are, causing a mass exodus. Alduin and Kagrenac showed that the reversal of creation is not turning yourself back into a god, it's your very soul getting consumed to empower the Divine.

There's a Forest thread floating around the second or third page.

What if I don't like that kind of godhood? The heroes of Sovngarde refer to you (indirectly) as "mortal". They're suggesting your wimpy non-immortal ass is why Shor has to hide. That suggests that the Nordic heroes there are immortal spirits. Not much of a difference between them and most Daedra anymore. The downside is your ass better know how to fight, or you don't get Sovngarde. Which I guess means I don't get it.

Not all Lorkhanic methods of ascension are CHIM.

Its truth is up in the air, but the Altmer certainly don't believe it. All their myths state that Man & Mer are both descended from the Aedra.

1st: I have no idea what you're talking about with Alduin.
2nd: Boethiah just claimed that (at least some of) the mortals on Nirn were depowered versions of / descended from spirits more like the Daedra than the Aedra. The dunmeri word daedra means "our better, stronger ancestors." Also, she's the prince of lies.
3rd: Kagrenac believed in a variant of the depowered Aedric Spirit theory, in which mortals are subgradients of a subgradient of a ... until you hit something way more awesome than the Aedra. He also ended up being so much golden shine on the skin of an intially battery-less robot.
4th: The fact that other cultures have slightly different beliefs from the Altmer is hardly evidence against their beliefs. You might as well have brought up the Cyrodiilic beliefs, which actually contradict the Altmeri beliefs.
5th: Everything we hear about ghosts supports the Altmeri view, from what I see. When not tied down to a mortal shell, your soul is A) immortal, and effin' hates the mundus. That's the closest we can get to having any evidence, and it certainly doesn't prove the Altmer wrong.

Same thing that happened if you didn't want mortality.

I think you're reading a bit to much into the "mortal" line re: Shor's appearance, but the simple fact that ancient heroes from the mythic age are still walking around in Sovngarde makes the point that the spirits there are immortal well enough. I'm not 100% sure if you're trying to make some other, more aggressive point there, but as it stands I think I agree with what you're saying here.

I wasn't around before Mundus. Maybe my soul was, but I define myself based on my memories and personality. Shor/Shezarr/Lorkhan created you, even if you have pointy ears or not.


In Sovngarde, you don't suffer. You don't grow old. In Sovngarde, you eat, drink, fight, compete, ect. without having to go through all the hardships you go through on Mundus.

There are anologs.

Chiefly: Dragonborn Emperor.

Alduin wants to end the Kalpa. We may never know his entire plans, but from what we've seen, he devours the souls of the departed to empower himself. This is in some ways the opposite of the mannish idea of creation: instead of the divine giving birth to the mortals at great cost, it is a divine being devouring the souls of departed mortals to make himself more powerful.

Just as the divines lost much of their essence creating mortals, Kagrenac regressed the Dwemer into their pre-creation state: divine essence. Not empowered spirits.

The difference is, all evidence is more tilted towards the Cyrodiilic and Nordic ideas of creation. Seems the Altmer idea is just their inflated egos insisting they must be special.

I've never heard the ghosts say anything about the Altmeri view. The only thing they share is they don't like being on Mundus, but for ghosts it's more because there's somewhere else they'd rather be, somewhere that would cease to exist if creation was reversed.

Undoing creation doesn't free ghosts to continue in their form like the Thalmor want, but rather involves the divine eating the souls of the mortals, the very beings who were created, not weakened, by the creation.

Doesn't the prophesy from Alduin's wall indicate that Snow-Throat has to be deactivated for the return to be possible? That cleft mountain does look broken to me.

Okay, I missed http://imperial-library.info/content/book-dragonborn pointed out in another thread which states:


I am currently interpreting the word "kingless" literally and assuming that it relates in some way to the rulership of Skyrim, though it is possible that the king of the Tower is someone else. The word "bleeding" suggests the Tower is not yet dead, but could be soon without intervention. I would conjecture that the Jagged Crown would be an excellent candidate for the Stone, especially if, as the Elder Scrolls wikia site claims, it is said to "possess a portion of every king ever to wear it," as this is similar to the Chim-el Adabal. It seems likely given the nature of the Mantella and the Chim-el Adabal (and possibly the Heart?) that the nature of Tower Stones is tied strongly to bound souls.

I've seen the suggestion that the Thalmor seek to destroy the Towers, and this would make sense if their ultimate goal is to unmake Mundus and the Towers anchor it. Further, the documents from the Thalmor embassy quest indicate that the civil war in Skyrim serves their purposes in some way. This could be further evidence that the High King of Skyrim is important to the function of the Tower.

I was under the impression that they like the war because it weakened the Empire, nothing more. Still, I like your theory about the Jagged Crown.

Admittedly, that could be; it's definitely guesswork. The http://imperial-library.info/content/thalmor-dossier-ulfric-stormcloak clearly indicates they wish the civil war to continue, that either side's victory would be suboptimal. The Empire solidifying control over Skyrim has obvious implications in the power struggle between Dominion and Empire; the downsides of a Stormcloak victory are less apparent. It could simply be that the issue of Talos worship is important enough to keep someone sympathetic off the throne, or that the continued drain on Imperial resources provides advantages to their definitively losing the province. It could also be that the state of war provides cover for their covert operations, whatever they are.

I like the idea of the Jagged Crown being a stone similar to the Amulet of Kings too, but as the crown is found in the Nordic ruins it seems as if nobody has worn the crown for a very long time.

So long as the Crown has a master, it may not matter for its function as Stone that he possesses it.