I really don't like the whole "Morrowind gets blown up" Thing, there are waaaaaay to man holes in the lore there.There are alot of holes in the Lore and physics, and almost destroying the Dunmer race just seems too... predictable.It seems like "Oh, that could only happen to the Dark Elves" kinda thing. I don't think TES would do that to any other race because it isn't "Typical".

And, also, I still don't undertsand how the Argonians, who never had a formal military, managed to defeat the dunmer army. Sure, the Dunmer were weakened, but the Argonians military strategy was hit and run, which they couldn't do in Morrowind (See the Arnesian War), the vastly superior fighting skills of the Dunmer would prevail.

And After the Heart of Lorkan was destroyed by the Nerevarine, Red Mountain collapsed basically, becoming just a mountain. So how in the hell could it explode with enough force to render Vvardenfell, which was alost as big as Cyrodill, a burning hellscape?

I can see Morrowind being beat up by the Oblivion crisis, with Cities burnt and riots abroad, but complete destruction? No.

Like I said before, the Hist controlled them. If you remember, in the book, when Glim first saw Umbriel, the Hist took control of his mind and forced him to get out of the cave they were in and go get svcked up by Umbriel. No, he wasn't even forced, he was so warped he was practically doing it willingly. The Hist organized the Argonians into a force to be reckoned with when the Oblivion gates opened, and they did it again to get back at the Dunmer. The Argonians are the puppets, and the Hist are the puppeteers.

Last time I checked though, comrade, the Hist was a hallucinagenic drug whose sap would make you hallucinate and become Uber Violent. I don't remember it having mind control poweres over the Argonians.

And even then, the Dunmer are a force to be reckoned with. They beat back the Imperial army several times befre signing a treaty with them over putting morrowind in the empire as a province of the empire. The argonians aren't known for thier tactics, weapondry, or magic. The dunmer, are. The only way the Dunmer could have lost is if they were sorely, SORELY outnumbered.

its effects on humans (and argonians by virtue of game mechanics) was established by oblivion and confirmed by Glim's visions in the IF. Violent tendencies can be attributed to the Hist's anger with its captives, vengeful tendencies, or simply corruption due to the way it was being held.

the dunmer won when they fought as a united force led by an unrivaled strategic mind (vivec). the dunmer the argonians defeated were likely commoners and nobles, not a fighting force -- and they were already decimated in number and in spirit.

You're kidding, right? The Hist are sapient trees, one of the oldest "races" on Tamriel. Yes, the sap also has very many effects on Argonians, but it's the Hist themselves that do the controlling.

Hmm. looked it up on the Imperial Library, and you seem to be right here. Touche, Comrade.

My question is: How much of the Dunmer population is destroyed? The Dunmer were common in cyrodill and the other provinces, so I'm curious to see what you all think on what the current Dunmer Population is.

It was probably a significant loss. Plenty of Dunmer fled Vvardenfell, but I think only the ones on the coast were able to. The Argonians invaded Morrowind so they probably killed enough Dunmer to overthrow the government. But since we didn't know the population of the Dunmer before the Red Year, we wouldn't really be able to estimate the population after.

I'd say that there's enough left to sustain a population. I really hope the new book will reveal more on the aftermath of the Red Year..

The Argonians are getting more BA by the day. First they kick Mehrune Dagon's ass, then they kick Morrowind's ass, even though they had a little help from a certain mountain.

I think the next big things will be the Hist Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion. It would be cool but unlikely if TES: V took place between the two empires and you could just a side. ANOTHER DUES EX MACHINA DRAGON BREAK, ANYONE!?!?!?!!?!?

When did the Argonians become so powerful anyway? Were they all on Hist Sap?

They are a seasoned guerilla army who have the very forest aggressive, commanding and on their side. It's hard not to believe they could repel almost any attack as long as it's on the home turf.

BTW I was wondering about something. I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if it's already been explained but what exactly happened to Vivec (the character, not the city)? Not sure if I missed something in the book or just don't remember from when I played Morrowind.

I understand he was not there any more and thus Sul and Vuhon put up their soul munching machine to keep the ministry afloat. Now I remember putting down Sotha Sil and Almalexia in Mournhold but why did Vivec leave? I did knock him out with my bare hands and then stabbed him to death but I made sure to reload an old save afterwards. It's not my fault is it? :confused:

Also does anyone know when the second book will come out? It'd be good to have somewhat of an idea when I should start keeping an eye on the site for it.

Vivec left Morrowind and wandered across tamriel conversing with scholars and shoving his muatra in Azura's mouth. I assume he returned to Palace Sweet Palace in time to be kidnapped by Dagon and taken to Oblivion.

The Hist had a vast Empire by all accounts when the Et-Adaa and their pals ran amok (presumably in the Dawntimes) - the Lore says that proved to be too much for the Hist to counter and their Empire was destroyed. The remnants of their Empire are in Argonia/BM ...

This is where you had to use a bit of imagination back before the book was released: and ask yourself what the Hist were up to during all those milennia?

I asked those questions here on the forum, made suggestions and no one was that interested at the time as they were all mostly focussed on the unfolding Love Letters, Vivec and stuff that was gone already so there was no big debate. There were a number of nubee threads asking what the Hist were and the officionados of the forum were unwilling to do more than refer to the snippets of past Lore - presumably because many feel that Lore is necessarily something that has already happened.

Now you are free to examine the question in the light of the loads of Lore / hints / clues and actual detail in the book. You might go back to the past threads on Hist and there you might find my speculations over the last few years and those of a few others who enjoy that side of Lore. But really you ought to be more up to date and focus on the new stuff that is apparently dev-sanctioned. So you now know that Hist abilities include telepathy of a fairly high order and magica. They have a (presumably) symbiotic relationship with the Argonians - or maybe the Argonians have a symbiotic relationship with them? I suspect that is an aspect that can be explored more in future through in-game books if not though Vol2

Lol - 1 still have not found a copy of Vol1 in England - though I am sure I will come accross one eventually - so I am left in the land of the blind too except I think there is a lot more detail in the Book that has not yet been discussed here, maybe because you cannot cut and paste the content of a paper book = you have to type it in? Anyways try as a starting point that the Hist had an Empire = they conquered others = they were intelligent and had a means of manipulating the physical either directly or indirectly. Accept that the past Lore was deliberately vague on this for storyline reasons.

The Hist were being secretive as they had a massive shock when their Empire was all but wiped out and all that they and the Argonians did was to probe and anolyse 'the enemies' that all but destroyed their civilisation and part of the continent. So they let the Empire and others invade many times and seceeded the peripheral lands from time to time while keeping the deep swamps inviolate to gather intelligence and prepare for the future of their much-altered continent.

In context Hist Sap appears to be a detail - although important because we until a game comes out that usess it our understanding of it will retain a speculative aspect.

This may explain why many overlooked the subject in favour of what they felt was juicier matter at the time and now you have the chance to do a bit of detective work of your own and I hope add more detail.

Hope this helps and all the best for the new decade - 1999

Perhaps Sotha Sil's deal he made the the Daedra long ago involved their souls being claimed by the Daedra in exchange for the Daedra Lords not invading Tamriel except under special circumstances?

2920 was a brilliant book, but I don't think it's 100% accurate, I mean, the guy who wrote it probs found out facts, and then added meat... so yeah.. It wasn't written by one of the tribunal... or was it? ( ) Vehk could have been trying to get some more info through to good old Nerevar

From the http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews/writers.shtml



Later, this exchange occurs:

OK, sorry, I've never read that interview.

me neither - interesting eh? ^_^

Yes, I particularly enjoyed Master Townway's answers. Many were extremely insightful. The other two, I found, were more concerned about fiction then fact.

My thoughts to ponder:

1. With the survivors that fled to Solsthiem, what becomes of the government. Will the original House system with the Temple and Royalty remain? The dunmer are prideful people, all of them, I could see them holding on their House system, though in a smaller scale, and probably no Hlaalu, as they probably fled west to Cyrodiil. Perhaps the remains of the Redorans, Dres, Telvanni and Indoril would stay seperate. I doubt they would fight anymore.

2. What about some notable individuals, cause surely only being 40+ after Morrowind would mean dark elves wouldn't at least die of old age. What do you guys think happened to people like Fyr, King Helseth, Barenziah, House leaders etc.?

1. I think the new Morrowind will be mainly Telvanni based. They're the only people bad-ass enough to be able to port out of there with a wave of the finger when [censored] hit the fan.

I disagree. Most of the Telvanni probably perished, since even closer to the main land they always seem build their towers near water (exception is Tel Uvirith). Even most of the Mage Lords likely died. They would have had some warning but not a lot. Granted they probably didn't lose as many as Redoran, which had already been decimated by long wars with the Nords and attacks from Dagon's forces.

There's a higher chance of House Dren and some of House Indoril having the most survivors, although by the time of the Loveletter it doesn't appear any of the old Houses still stand. One of the people mentioned in Infernal City bore the sigil of a lesser house or family..let me check it out... it didn't mention what group this person belonged to. The Dunmer who found Umbra was apparently a nobleman, and wore a signet ring engraved with the figure of a draughr. I don't know if he was one of the survivors from Vvardenfell or if he stopped by en route from the mainland to Solsthiem.

I disagree also. I do agree that most of the underlings and retainers would have their skin boiled off or be drown as the boiling seas ravage the coast. But all the higher ranking wizards, some of the medium ranking ones, and all of the council except Therana and possibly that guy in Sadrith Mora, he also seems a bit out of it.

For your PC, a mark and recall spell only took second to cast, and even though every Telvanni wizard probably doesn't have a mark in the middle of solstheim, I'm pretty assure there are more efficient ways of teleportation. Like the Mages Guild guides and that chick who telepots you to Mournhold. And there's also the extremely slight possibility that Aryon was kindhearted enough to port away some of the lower members to Soulstheim before tidal waves and molten lava overcame his fortress.

To me, no matter what Great House will be dominant, what matters is that the Dunmeri culture has survived.