If you just reduce the water you can get from those sources per drink then people will just drink mutliple times. Greatly increasing the radiation from those kind of sources is probably the best solution, maybe along with of reduction in the water you get (so you can drink in small steps instead of the full 200 H2O and a large radiation blast after one drink).


The way I see it (Or how Arwen sees it anyway, and I agree.), these things can sort of be solved by reducing the overall loot found in the game by quite a bit, and increasing the effect of barter skill on merchant deals.

If ammo, food and medicine are more scarce, the game will get harder because you'll run out of them quicker. Then if merchants rip you off more when your barter skill is low, you don't earn that much from selling stuff, so you won't make caps easy. It'll also be more expensive to buy supplies and repairing your equipment.

Now that you're no longer swimming in caps, crafting/repairing becomes more useful too, and you should have some extra motivation for quests that are offering a good amount of caps as a reward.

That would be the kind of solution an overhaul needs. I was actually surprised that more people didn't speak up about this, I have to assume that it's just not widely known how much these sources replenish.



Items like Hydra and Atomic Cocktail though shouldn't just become rarer - they should just be removed period, with more settlements getting doctors. These were always items intended for the console crowd.

Well first off I'm very happy you're enjoying FWE so much and thank you for the kind words and your input.
And again we haven't stopped modding, you should be hearing from us hopefully soon enough

But like TTT said, this game is barely two weeks out, we are still in the process of exploring all the ins and outs. Now keep in mind FWE was almost a 2 years journey to get where it is now, with thousands of hours spent both modding and playing. And one thing we learned is, that if you don't plan carefully, features that you initially thought are a great idea, might come back and bite you in the ass. So if we even want to remotely repeat what FWE did, it will take a lot of planning, if we don't want to take two years again.

So I hope you aren't dissapointed, and by no means did I mean to come off as "NV is the perfect game, nothing to do here, lets move on". There is a lot we can and we will do, don't worry. Like I said, I just believe it's important to value New Vegas as it's own game and not just view it as an extension of FO3. NV is in my eyes gameplay wise just such an improvement and so different, that it's important to see the big picture first, before you start adding and changing details.

I didn't actually know about this until you pointed it out, I hadn't tried drinking from such water sources yet.

That's cool. I wasn't really presuming that was what you were saying, but I've just heard quite a few times that 'FNV is FWE' just because of some similarities in features.

New Vegas has a lot of improvements upon Fallout 3, not just FWE. That's not to say that gameplay couldn't be refined even further by a dedicated group of modders, and I'd certainly love to see rebalance/additional weapons and so on in the form of a single overhaul mod. This will most certainly happened, as it did in Morrowind, and Oblivion, and Fallout 3....

edit: Also things like Explosive tweaks, SPECIAL tweaks (Perception comes to mind) explosive entry, lockpicking/hacking changes, etc.

I went ahead and registered an account here so I could also thank you for your work on FWE for Fallout 3. Fallout 3 vanilla became rather boring for me after a while until your mod came around and breathed new life into it. I keep seeing all these new balance mods for New Vegas but none of them hold a candle to FWE, so I am eagerly awaiting your overhaul for New Vegas.

Also waiting on whatever Mart (of Mart's Mutant Mod) will be doing. Combining those two mods made Fallout 3 fun again. I beat New Vegas last night after putting around 50-60 hours into it, and I can't wait to do it all over again with your mods.

On that note, some chump on New Vegas Nexus already tried to take the MMM name (calling it Mad Mitchells Monster), but its basically a cheat mod that gives you perfect stats.

As far as I can tell, we already have an FWE for NV. It's called hardcoe mode.

If you think the vanilla food/drink/sleep rates are too low, then that's what the G.E.C.K is there for, right? Pump those rates up so high you need to get 5+ food items to get rid of even the slightest hunger, 5+ water items to remove even the slightest thirst, and require having to sleep for at least 8 hours every ingame day.

Though I'm sure after awhile you'd get tired of having to CONSTANTLY do all that. That's why Obsidian has the rates as "low" as they are: So the threat is still there, but it is not so intrusive that you no longer end up playing the game but end up playing real life.

But no, really. The G.E.C.K will probably let you alter ammo rates, the time it takes to need to eat/drink/sleep and all that. If you think it's too easy and want ammo to weigh 1 instead of .6 or something like that and want to have to eat/drink every couple hours, then adjust your own game to do so. If it's such a simple fix such as that, especially considering these features are already in the game, it's kinda inconsiderate to demand people to make a giant mod just to allow you to fine tune options when you could do it yourself.

I disagree, FWE was much more than increased basic-needs rates, less loot and higher damage. Also keep in mind that not anybody is familiar with the GECK (or CS in the case of OB and MW) to put out gameplay overhauls. Like I said moders don't owe end-users nothing, that's why people should appreciate that they're getting all this stuff for free but that doesn't mean people can't ask for certain mods from more talented individuals... nothing wrong in asking.

You are missing the point in that a mod community is a mass prototype powerhouse that follows basic rules of evolution. A game can be balanced much better by a community than a development house ever could over a period of time and produce a far more intricate experience. While a professional development house tends to be good at polishing an existing concept and producing a coherent experience a mod community is better at trying new ideas and refining balance through mass iteration in a way that not even the biggest most prolific development houses in the world could ever compare.

With that said FWE was more about a refined experience not simply a more challenging or repetitive one. Part of the mods refinement of the fallout concept was to be more challenging.

edit: With that said, a lot of the feedback mentioned on this thread has proven useful to me.
I nerfed how much hydration you receive from standard water sources from 200 to 10 per sip and made it so that you receive 2 rads from even a purified pond. Hydra and cocktails are now also nerfed considerably. And I am now also working on increasing the rarity of most items such as food, stims, ammo ect....

Please consider the actual in-game implications of your actions, don't juggle numbers in a vacuum. Players at 200 H20 who stagger across a ruined house would have to take 20 drinks. Given how long the drinking animation is, that's over a minute wasted tapping E, when you could simply keep the H20 gain at 200 or 100, and simply up the radiation hit.
A mechanic which forces the player to not play for a minute or more is a godawful mechanic.

I did think about that but came to the conclusion that the focus should be on using bottle water and discouraging water sources as a standard means of hydration. Though I do see your point, perhaps the best idea would be to up the rads and have closer to - 60 H20 rather than 10 so that is a good point.

Speechless... the amount of time and effort invested by the FWE team to give us a more intense, rewarding and better gameplay experience in Fallout 3 is second to none. What the hell, man!

/facepalm

You can actually hold E and it'll continue to drink for you. Just throwing that out there.

The hardcoe mode is ridiculously easy and the fact that they did not include a hud for all needs made things quite tedious.

I really liked FWE. I played FO3 mostly without any overhauls for a long time, bu once I had FWE, I don't think I could play without it. I liked it mostly for its damage balancing. The needs bit made for nice flavor though, and I found it funny (nice) when 'hardcoe' mode on FNV would incorporate those changes. If there is a FWE (or FCE as the case may be) for FNV, it would be a nice improvement on a game that already makes a nod to it. I would especially like an overhaul of damage/armor balance in the game. Anyway, if it happens, thanks.

I have read in the previous threads that the energy weapons are weak except for a few exceptions. I think that we should make energy weapons more powerful but rarer (only high end factions have them). Seriously, i think that they need to rebalance cell consumption for the weapons like making the plasma caster consume for cells.

Hey, guys? Let's stop all lying to ourselves, okay?

FWE isn't completely stable. FWE alone did not inspire all the new features in NV. NV is the sequel to Fallout 3, not FWE.

Now that that's over with - I daresay I'm one of the few people that enjoyed FWE here that thinks the majority of the people in this thread are crazy. For what it's worth, I consider what Obsidian did with hardcoe mode a pretty good "in-between" for both players of regular Fallout 3 and people who mod the [censored] out of it. "But wait!" you say, "hardcoe mode was made for us!" Well, no. hardcoe mode was inspired by the "realistic" mods, true, but it was less made for people that play FWE and more for people that want a trickier experience.

I daresay they did it better, too - why? Because, instead of solely aiming for realism, they tried to aim for a balance between gameplay and realism. Food and drink heals. What, you're telling me that isn't hardcoe? You should probably go take a class in "Roleplaying 101"! Since the dawn of time, food and drink have been renowned as sources of energy and sustenance. Doesn't that make sense?
Oh, but what's this? "It's too plentiful"? Well, then - why are you picking it all up? Just because find a few boxes of junk food doesn't mean you need to take it! Water? Why are you drinking irradiated water? Personally, I'd like to see a mod that makes radiation more potent, but that's just me. It's not like there's much RadAway in the wastes, anyway! I daresay making/suggesting the player carry less food would be a neat idea, too. Make food heavy, but give it multiple uses? Maybe that. Or, hell, just go with the logical solution and make food useless. Eat ten steaks as a snack! I mean, I don't think FWE ever got to the point where you were selling your best weapon to buy for some food, right?
How about the indicators for your needs? Why do people think an exact reading of your needs is realistic? Here's a suggestion - next time you're hungry, tell me your hunger level. With a bit of effort, you can narrow it down - but otherwise, it's just "I'm feeling hungry". And then you complain about how plentiful food is! What, are you so obsessive that you've worried your character will overeat if they go under zero food? That they will starve to death if they eat a meal and still have ten hunger left? Oh, the horror!

What about ammo weight? I guess you can't cart around a small country's entire armoury now, eh? What, is the ammo too light now? Pssh. Strength requirements seem fine to me! Rifles don't weigh as much as miniguns, and you shouldn't need 12 STR to lift a minigun, either. I'll concede the whole "weapon skill shouldn't affect damage" point, though. With all the people suggesting it, it's a wonder nobody's made a mod that makes weapon skill affect critical chance and spread instead of damage. Number of weapons? You don't want to drown the player in weapons! Hell, it's not like people are just going to end up using the best gun they can find, anyway! Oh, wait! They are. Unless they're those sorts of people that walk around in cruddy outfits and a crappy weapon because it "looks good".

What else is there? Oh, that's right, New Vegas doesn't have bedrolls. Boo hoo! Or a portable oven. Or a water purifier. Oh no, not the convenient items that make the game easier! Apparently, beds are "everywhere" too, just like food and drink. I'd like to know where this "everywhere" place is, so I can go and take a nap there. Maybe have some dinner, too.

It was the sentiments behind the designs of FWE and other similar mods that made for a proof of concept allowing the devs to pitch the idea to the higher ups with a greater chance of success. When a pitch document says, this is what people really want and here is proof, it holds a lot more water. All the features of hardcoe mode are exactly the kinds of things that most development houses view as high risk or too niche to be worth the risk.

Taking risks in this day and age seems to be at an all time low when it comes to first person shooters of any kind so it really does say a lot when so many normally VERY unpopular ideas were implemented in an optional hardcoe mode and they also just happen to be what the most popular mods for the game also included. So yes there is a true influence at work here.

With that said I wonder what the FWE team currently has in mind for their next project.

No but the point of having eating/drinking requirements in a game like this is to make survival a challenge. Unless you rely on food completely for healing instead of stimpaks, you'll never have to worry about getting hungry. It's just a minor annoyance. Oh I'm hungry! *open inventory, click one of many food items, close inventory* Done.

And making it challenging for yourself by intentionally not picking up food is rather pointless.

With NV having covered so much - - - perhaps this is all we have left in terms of realism overhaul...

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1135271-req-taking-a-dump-mod-realism/

;D

I wonder what it would be like to have that in the game. Would it stay funny indefinitely like Collins bear or would it eventually get old after awhile?

I mean seriously think about playing the game with this mod in all its glory.

all I know is

i do followers

do i really wanna walk into the Lucky 38 suite and encounter Boone sitting on the can?

help

I'm currently working on implementing my Realism Tweaks for NV, so I've looked a LOT of details in the NV game settings. Some are exactly the same as they were in the default FO3, but others are MUCH closer to some of the changes that I made in my Smarter AI module. So I can see that someone was actually paying attention to how modders were improving the game.

Fo:NV is an improvement in many ways, but it still needs a LOT of tweaking before I will be happy with my own game play.