I was actually trying to think of that word to qualify my assertions, but couldn't think of it. Yes, definitely anecdotal.


Oh, Galsiah, by the way, let me second that plea: May we share patched versions in some way short of full-on uploading it at one of the mod sites, for the purpose of unofficial beta testing, and assuming we change nothing except the very specific fixes mentioned and very clearly annotate that this is test version strictly for beta testing purposes, and not authorized for further distribution in any other way? (Eliminating spaces around fixes, moving 34th vars, and the other issues mentioned in this thread.) If so, would it be acceptable if we do it here via, say, a temporary host-service download like Rapidshare or an equivalent, or would you want us to restrict it to something not publicly posted?

Much appreciated, and since I do not think I have personally said it to you, thanks from me as well. It makes a bleah system into a smooth, compelling one, and you clearly do great work. Cheers! :foodndrink:

I think that this is a splendid idea. :cake: :cake: These cakes might be yours, Galsiah, if you let us release it. Two whole cakes. Thats as many as two ones, and thats wonderful!

Most of the mods released with scripts inside made through CS have errors that can cause CTDs in every moment. Like GCD, even NoM suffers of this problem, and NoM has a lot of scripts! I'm getting used to clean mods with MWEdit, I don't play any mod until the compiler reports me 0 errors (ok, sometimes it could be tedious, but it's worth it). I have about 90 mods now, most of them with scripts inside, and the difference between playng originals and "cleaned" is huge. Of course a CTD could happen sometimes, but without all those missing spaces, vars on the 34th position, missing endifs, function names used as variables and else I have noticed stability is sensibly increased.

That does seem to be the case. I was just noticing CDCooley's excellent Improved Teleportation v2.0 has the same problems. (And, when/if we get Wrye's go-ahead, we'll be revising NoM to very clean standards.)

But, yeah, I have been starting to do the same, and I am seeing a huge difference.

Has anyone made a parser for scripts to automate fixing issues like spacing, unmatched endifs, 34th variable gaffs, etc?

If you guys just read his readme it says this:

On re-using / releasing this mod



Please do:

Feel free to use any ideas / methods / scripts from GCD in your own mods. Any credit appreciated.

Ask to upload this mod to any site where you think it would be useful. I'll usually say yes.

Change some values in the Gals___Customize / Gals___Skill_Factors scripts and give the resulting mod to an individual.

Try (hard) to contact me before creating an updated version of this mod, but if you really can't contact me, then go ahead anyway. Good luck!



If I'm not contactable, then it is fine to upload this mod where you think it will be useful.



Please don't:

Change some values in the scripts and upload the mod to a site.

Release a new version of GCD without trying hard to contact me first.



So if you guys can't get in contact with him he has your blessing.

Not that I know, it would be great.
I use a macro for UltraEdit with some regular expressions, but, I'm a regex noob and they are not good enough (sometimes they fix something and break something else) to become some code.
Still, the pure automation of adding proper spaces around parenthesis (MWEdit catches the problem but can't clearly find where it is in compile all mode) is worth the effort and if someone good enough with Perl regular expression syntax (I'm thinking it would be great to add such a tool to Mash or Mlox) would want to properly implement the regular expressions, I'd have some frequently used fixes to suggest

Don't worry, I did RTFRM, Sarudak.

But he has responded recently (2 months ago) on this thread, expressing a possible intent to revisit the mod and release an update, and has been online two weeks ago. So he's around, even if not regularly.

Ok, look. I'll up my offer to THREE CAKES for anybody willing to fix this mod. :cake: :cake: :cake:

Here is an update that I have been using with not problems. Use at your own risk.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1047465&view=findpost&p=15198442

There was another issue that crashes MW in case of multiple messages popping up. Therefore I have commented out all of the attribute levelup messages that can collide with the skill-up messages. Now if I take this fix, I would get back the multi-message crash bug again.

I'd prefer official fixes of both problems by Galsiah.

Apologies for being a bit slow on this - I usually end up planning to make improvements myself, but not finding/making time. In particular, looking at much of the GCD 1.07 code now fills me with horror to the extent that I want to re-write the whole thing. I did get about halfway through doing this ages ago, but never got around to finishing, or testing it at all.

For now, I think it's a good idea for someone to put together and release a patched/fixed version - whether as a patch esp, or a stand-alone altered esp, doesn't bother me: whichever seems to make sense. Perhaps I'll get around to doing something myself at some point, but I can't be certain of that. In the meantime it seems a shame for most people not to have access to the most stable versions.

I need to do something on GCD in the next few days anyway - yahoo Geocities is dying, so I need either to move the website, or at least make sure that the latest versions are elsewhere (I'm not sure the 1.08 patches are anywhere else yet). Since it's likely that no-one will find the new site for a while, even if I move it, it'd be useful to have an up-to-date version somewhere else.


My reason for not wanting other people to upload versions was simply to avoid having a load of different versions floating around, and never being sure which version introduced what bugs. With that rationale in mind, there's no reason to object to a new fixed version, just so long as there's only one (I'm not making one for now). It's fine, and helpful, for one fixed version to be uploaded to mod sites, but I'd rather not have a load of different versions. Please email me with any new version/patch (galsiah AT yahoo.co.uk), and I'll put it up on the GCD site, as/if/when I move it.

On the technical side, one aspect that could use testing for any patched version is the vampire conversions under GCD (obviously you'd want to test using the console, rather than by getting infected/cured naturally). Some of the scripts with potential 34th variable troubles are the vampire conversion scripts. Some of the local variables used in these get set from skill scripts. They seem to work with the 34th variable used, so it'd be nice to know that they also work without it - i.e. that they're not relying on odd 34th variable quirks to function properly. I guess it's unlikely there'd be a problem here, but the vampire scripts were always very hackish, so I wouldn't be too surprised if they broke after changes (even reasonable changes). Of course there'd be more chance for such errors if the patch were applied to a game already in progress - though maybe that'd be fine too, I'm not sure.

Oh and I don't think there's any need to change the "Menutest" function to take a parameter - unless e.g. "Menutest 0" does the same thing (IIRC it doesn't, but I really don't remember).

If fixes are made or if it gets re-written so to speak, can it be done that CE Fortify effects do not count to getting leveled up. What i mean is this...i like playing a thief and very often i install the Morrowind Weapon pack v1.0 from Katana3DG. It has a leveling shortblade version of Valdris and it has a CE fortify Block on it that improves like the weapon itself throughout the game. When using GCD in the past and ones i would use the Valdris then GCD leveled up my player, and ones the CE improved it would do so again.

Now it would be great if this problem with CE fortify effects would not happen. I also hope i have explained this correctly since it is a long time ago since i used the latest GCD.

This can't be done from the GCD side (without http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1041353). However, it'd be fairly simple to fix with a specific patch for Morrowind Weapon pack - or for any similar mod. All that's necessary is to classify the fortify effect of the weapon as a "curse" rather than an "ability". It might sound odd for bonuses to be 'curses', but having them function that way correctly identifies them as fortifications, rather than as natural skill gains. GCD will work correctly with such curse effects; it can't be made to work with ability effects.
Some of the patches in the patches-and-fixes folder do similar things already - e.g. the Havish patch (IIRC) does this conversion for a similar weapon in Havish. It's very simple for anyone to make such a patch, just so long as you can open TESCS, and know the fundamentals of how to create/edit/save esps. I'll include any such patches I'm aware of in future GCD downloads.

I see thanks for the explanation Glasiah, i will remember this tip next time. :goodjob:

Well, how timely is THIS thread?

..just what I needed. Okay here goes. Sorry for the length....

Folks, without outside prompting, I admit I have already done the unthinkable and gone where angels fear to tread. Yes, in trying to fix what isn't seriously broken, I tried fashioning a revamped version of GCD. I call it 'GCD Lean'.

In hopes of resolving the aforementioned quirks with a more efficient, error-free, logic-driven package, it has, to date, failed. I shall elaborate.

You see, I have embarked on a rather insane project which is of a ridiculously large scope. It has the working title of 'Morrowind Amalgamated' and, as you might guess from the name, attempts to bundle the best of Morrowind mods into a single package. More announcements about it should be made in the forthcoming weeks (if I don't starve in the meantime). You heard it here first, but the point is, in order for such a behemoth to have any chance of operating, I figure that every object, every dialogue entry, AND every script has to be cut to the core. To that end, part of what I occupy my time with is what I call 'script tightening'. It involves removal of comments, removal of excess whitespace, error correction, renaming of scripts and variables in accordance with a sophisticated Name Scheme I devised and, of course, testing as much as time will allow. I have done this to success on dozens if not hundreds of scripts already, (even some of yours abot), and I believe I have been vindicated in my approach when, in several nail-biting situations, I find to my amazement that my super mods do actually run, and perhaps run a little better owing to the tightening treatment. That's been true in all cases...except one.

Yes, GCD has left me curled up in a fetal position, lying in the corner and whimpering like a distraught puppy. It has taken two weeks of my life, crunched them up in a little ball and tossed them over its shoulder. It has become my Last Stand, my Waterloo, and my Stalingrad. I fear it will be the thing in Morrowind that actually DOES kill me. With that in mind, here is the work I have done on it thus far:

----

- ran each script through MWSE script editor and formatted
- used the MWSE editor to remove all indentation
- manually checked for trailing whitespace and further removed whitespace by vertically bunching some blocks, mostly variable declarations
- applied fixes to all errors discovered. I believe this covers all the errors mentioned earlier in this thread
(spaces removed around 'fixes', most commas removed, extra 'endifs' commented out, MenuTest given 0, 34th variable dummied, etc.)
- shortened the names of most scripts (underscores removed, long words abbreviated)
- did the same for global variables
- renamed scripts and global variable prefixes in accordance with my Name Scheme (scripts take the form SCGCD... and globals VgGCD...)
- renamed scripts in series' so as to remove any ambiguity (my rule is that the full i.d. name of any object should never comprise the partial name of another. Thus, 'MyScript, MyScriptA, MyScriptB' becomes 'MyScriptA, MyScriptB, MyScriptC')
- renamed a few scripts to resequence them for better layout
- abbreviated most local variables. When they are used in 'remote calls' (called from another script), the script name + the variable name comprises no more than 25 characters
- in accordance with a more localized name scheme, rendered skill and attribute names to two-letter abbreviations to give more concise and orderly layouts
- made most changes using search-and-replace in Dave Humphrey's excellent MWEdit which was then used to check each script
for errors and variable agreements
- ran 'recompile all' in TESCS to catch any errors, made any necessary changes, and ran it again until it ran clear
- manually re-saved every script in TESCS in hopes of ensuring 'recognition' by each script of the variables it needs, especially where 'remote calls' are involved
- used WinMerge to perform a fairly detailed line-by-line comparison against the original version of the mod to try catching any human error I might have introduced
- saved GCD in TESCS, exited, re-loaded, re-saved to (maybe) clean any 'residual references' (this works for dialogue changes)
- cleaned with TESTool and TESAME

----

Please note, this is NOT an attempt to change the way GCD, or any scripts for that matter, function. I am pathetic at scripting. Rewriting GCD is way beyond me and I am astounded by the sophistication that Galsiah has implemented in this creation.

Anyway?the upshot? Well, when I can get it to run, it seems to run like a damn. Changing the load order sometimes helps. It seems to run fine on its own. But guess what? Put it with other mods, and I can still get those wacky messages (though they're not so much the @@@@@@... kind, more like 'sound i.d. "ttle axe" not found in (script name)'), it might still take three tries to load a save game (unacceptable for MWAM (Morrowind Amalgamated) since that can take around 10-12 minutes to load), and with my present incarnation, initialization just hangs and I can't get in no matter what.

I have even tried exporting all changes and re-introducing them into a blank mod so as to come up with a fresh pool of references. Interestingly, this does not help and in fact the same error messages appear. This leads me to wonder if it's not so much a case of reference recognition but variable recognition or order dependency. It's interesting that the error messages are different for different GCD versions, but consistent within any one version. Messing around with sequences and i.d.s has apparently given me a unique set of problems.

In the meantime, it sounds like you might be on to something Gluby, and perhaps that's the route to go for now. I had begun embarking on a similar path, starting over again and doing things more stepwise. It appears AzuMite, though, has already produced a comment-free error-corrected version so I shan't bother. Thank you AzuMite!

Unfortunately, playtesting has alas revealed that AzuMite's version also yields error messages and load hangs. You can usually get it to work though. An interesting note: when used with Quick Char, the original GCD gives the "Gals__GetStartStats_InGame" message ("It seems you have been here in Vvardenfell for some time?"), while any version with the slightest tweaking fails to yield that routine.

I have come here for help and would be ecstatic if you would give permission, Galsiah, to upload this version to yourself or anyone else with too much time on their hands to pick at it and try to justify my efforts. (I'll include the ChangeLog and what I have so far of my Name Scheme). I must stress that, given its bare-bones nature, I would not advocate distributing it as a stand-alone version should it be made to work (that's for Galsiah to decide), but rather I envision it as part of the GCD suite where the original version, complete with comments, is front and center.

This is a great mod and I really hope it can be ironed out. It deserves every bit of its fine reputation.

=!)

A few points on this:
Although I can't be sure, some of the methodology you're using seems a bit mad (e.g. comment removal, indentation removal). Perhaps it can help, but it seems a bit on the superstitious side - not that I haven't been guilty of that myself where Morrowind scripting is concerned. It might help to know what does/doesn't end up in compiled scripts - e.g. I'd have thought that the presence/absence of comments really should make no difference at all; is there any evidence that it does??

While GCD is probably more sophisticated than average, some of the apparent sophistication is just the complexity thrown up by inadequate organization/planning/knowledge, and ad hoc additions. If the aim is to create a version than runs more reliably/efficiently/cleanly, the place to start really would be to re-organize the semantics of the scripts, not just the syntax. For example, the original motivation for having so many scripts constantly running, and some starting every few seconds, was to make sure no local variables were 'forgotten' on saving. That's a non-issue for anyone with an expansion (practically everyone now); other workarounds exist even for those that haven't. Reorganising things so that scripts aren't run(ning) more than necessary might help to minimize the more unpredictable multi-mod-conflict errors.
In particular, that's likely to be more and more of an issue the more heavily scripted mods are involved.

Do feel free to give your version to anyone who wants to see it / help, but I don't think it'd make a great deal of sense for me to get into that. If I have much time to spend on this, I'll re-structure the scripts properly myself. After fixing the errors AzuMite pointed out, I'm not sure it makes sense for anyone to put much more effort into squeezing stability/efficiency out of the current version - it's got fundamental issues that no syntax spring-cleaning will address. Feel free to see if you can get results that way, but I wouldn't expect it to improve the in-game efficiency/stability much at all. Crashes-on-load are another question, since I've never really understood those at all - perhaps syntax tweaking might help there.


I guess this is just a load-order issue, and/or a consequence of GCD being triggered by a startscript (in the GCD startscript esp), or by the object trigger in the C&E office.

Oh, and for the whole 'Morrowind Amalgamated', are you attempting to put everything into one esp, or just to package multiple non-conflicting esps? Putting everything into one esp seems a bit mad. Merging into a few packages might make sense, but trying to shoe-horn everything into one blob seems like it's asking for trouble (if that's what you're trying).


As ever, glad you liked the mod.

Dude, you totally shouldn't be doing a project of that magnitude by yourself... I know that assembling a team is tricky and unreliable because people run out of free time and drop out of a huge project very easily, but still, dude... I mean, don't get me wrong, kudos to you and best of luck to your project, but it's really going to take a long time if you don't get a couple of people to help you.


Erm... what exactly is "Quick Char"? That I may not know, but I know for a fact that AzuMite's version of GCD (the one from http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1047465&st=20&p=15198442&#entry15198442) gave me that message a couple of times, when I activated the mod and loaded a save which was made without the mod.

Quick Char. Its a mod that skips chargen. Basically, it just gets your name and stats and plops you out in front of the C&E in Seyda Neen.

I have this issue with Chargen Revamped as well. Tried some ways around it thinking that my edits caused it, but its been happening with the first Chargen Revamped too. (even Galsiah's delayed patch for the first one still causes the issue). No clue how to fix it either.

Galsiah, thank you for your prompt reply and permission to share.



Indeed, 'going back to the drawing board' as it were is what is needed, I agree. I've done on it all I care to which is why I now present it to whomever wishes to take it further. I do not have the ability or time to help in rebuild it, nor frankly do I feel it is my place to fiddle with the mechanics of GCD. I was, however, able to render it to a fairly streamlined package. I know you'll design future versions your own way. I still offer it as a resource in case you find any ideas therein that are of value.



Yes, I did more testing with my version today. Interestingly, it seems very load-list dependent. It will work fine with some mods and save games will reload first try. With other mods come the nonsense messages. When it DOES run, it performs well. Initialization is fast. If you go to the console and type 'player->setbluntweapon 60', attribute gains are immediate and the level-up comes in 'boom'.

As far as being mad for doing all this, possibly so. Making GCD slimmer in-and-of-itself when running 20 or 30 mods is no big deal. But when you're running the equivalent of 400 mods, and you streamline not just GCD but NOM, MC, Vampire Embrace, Wizard's Islands, The Underground, Silgrad Tower, etc., etc., it all adds up. If nothing else, file size becomes an issue.
Rendered down, I got GCD from 1.12 MB to 654 KB WITH the potion fix included.



I HAVE put 'everything' into two esp's. Yes, it really is quite a mad mod and I might be the only one who ever uses it, permissions to release its content not being the least of my worries. But I playtest it from time to time, and believe me, I grin. I can't get 'everything' in it, of course. There are too many landmass mods for one thing. Map 1 of the Tamriel Rebuilt maps is the only one that will fit, unfortunately. Two esp's are required because trying to put it all into one overloads the construction set.

Veeno,



Tell me about it.

My ultimate dream is for it to become a community project. I just don't want to release anything that's half-baked. That would ensure its death. So on my own, I want to get it to a point where it shows its potential.

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=19

My fave.

(edited to remove link to GCDLean)

Well... does it work better than AzuMite's fix, worse, same, as well as the original GCD..? I had a fresh MW install a couple of days ago and I'm dead tired of all the testing so I don't feel like doing some more testing at the moment...

Though I don't use QuickChar (I have been using SkipTutorial), I have not had any of the problems described with my version. It seems pretty stable. I have it up http://download210.mediafire.com/ztz0zhxavsgg/ylyn2fwmofz/GCD+v1.08+with+Startscript%2C+fixed+%5BGalsiah%5D.rar, if you'd like to try it. Again, basically all of AzuMite's fixes applied, except the vars occupying the 34th position are shifted to the end, rather than shifting all variables one position down, and all commenting retained.

The difference for me is seeming rather dramatic. From frequent CTDs on reload and a fair bit of in-game CTDs, I'm getting hardly any now, with 100-some mods in my main testing loadout.

EDIT: Another note. Being a wet-eared beginner at this, I only recently found out about the necessity of double-compiling and then recompiling related scripts (SFD9.0 pp. 29-30, for the latter bit, and I can't remember who said it or where I read it on double-compiling), so I was pretty methodical about making sure to double-recompile (i.e. click Save twice in the CS) all scripts in it.

Veeno,

I would say stick with AzuMite's version. It's a more basic fix and closer to the original, so is more stable. GCD Lean is not necessarily for use, just a resource for anyone wanting ideas or who is willing to examine its guts see why it doesn't load as well.

Gluby,

I won't switch GCDs in mid-stream on my current character. I'm currently using AzuMite's which is very similar to what I started with way back. (His was more convenient to find). It's pretty good and if it causes any crashes, they're rare enough that I don't get annoyed. But I just might try your approach in GCD Lean and see if it makes any difference. Plus, thanks for the SFD reference.

Great. I just installed this and started a new character... :facepalm:

...but as of now (level 3), no problems. :shrug:

Makes me wonder if I should dump now before I build up a character
and run into problems later.

I really like how it works so far. :nod:

If you have not experienced problems, then like the many people who already use GCD (me included), I suggest you keep using it. It won't screw up your character at all.