Hello. Two threads in one day, I possibly need to spend less time asking questions (note: I don't really believe that, but I felt it needed to be acknowledged that its a possibility).

My question now is about http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/game_dinner.shtml and about the possible idenity of Dhaunayne.

Searching of the name says that Dhaunayne is an altmer name, and one who comes up bearing that name is the Vampire Queen Aundae (an altmer).

As, in A Game at Dinner, Dhaunayne is referred to as 'your unholiness' I have to ask: who would claim such a title? And, having found the Queen Aundae, I suppose she's a prime suspect.

But if it is her, why is she interested in the least in the happenings of Helseth's house? I'm sure you've all come to your own conclusions about all this already, but I'm just curious. Is it possible that Dhaunayne is one and the same as the Queen Aundae? If she is, what is her interest in House Dres? Would she have a non-vampiric servant willing to ask for reprieve, as 'the anonymous spy' did? I was under the impression that vampires largely held half-mad cattle, who certainly couldn't expect mercy and I would imagine would never ask to be released from any service to their master.

If it isn't Queen Aundae, then who is it suspected to be? I'm just curious: I love speculation. Anyway, thanks.

Speculatively speaking then .... House Dres has been said to have an unspecified number of Vampires among those ruling it.

If that were the case then their arrangements with their 'cattle' etc might be very different from other groups of Vampires in Morrowind.

For example they might have those they consider cattle hidden away and treat other mer/humans etc quite normally.

Alternatively they might have a totally different name for their 'cattle' and it might be that those mer are highly thought of by them and others - though outsiders might not totally understand why.

If events take place in Morrowind an interest in Helseth would be hard to avoid. They would have to deal with him one way or another.

However I seem to remember that one of the Morrowind Vampite Clans is called Aundae? Wonder what the leader might be called?

Also why could it not be a Morrowind Altmer you refer to?

I guess there is more in there to be found though ... and you may be correct about your Queen

The only match for that name on UESP is the Altmer Dhaunayne, head of clan Aundae.

It's a known unknown that the Dres have quite a bit of ruling class which are vampires. So it is assumed there is quite a bit of relation between Dres and Aundae based on this writing. It is technically speculation within lore and some argue it's propaganda but i think it's more interesting for House Dres' lore then them just being "grumpy slavers."

But if there are vampires within House Dres, then why does the vampire Queen Aundae need to spy on Helseth? Presumably that information would easily have been available to her, and her spy wouldn't have needed to fear retribution.

What information would have been readily avaiable to her? do you believe that Helseth Trusts?

There are different kinds of intelligence - one kind involves the gathering of everyday information - another involves the gathering of information only available to individuals who know certain people personally. for the latter you have to have someone in place who will be welcomed by the person you wish to spy on.

In Tamriel without telephones, e-mail etc there is really nothing like having someone on the spot to garner both kinds of info. But even with telephones etc you need someone to witness.

Umm - you know that Helseth is Hlaalu don't you?

Also Hlaalu does not trust Helseth because they believe he murdered his predecessor - so who does Helseth trust?

Dang! I was going to open a thread on that just today. I was thinking the same thing after I found the Aundae signet ring.

Perhaps the Dres vampires are not answering to Aundae.

Well, helseth is a bit paranoid, so her spy (whether dres or private) would need to be very careful to not make the wrong move and die showing alleigance to another entity.

There is a certain wisdom there ... though I cannot help feeling that Helseth knew exactly who everyone was spying for - after all he did name them did he not?

Maybe the real reason that one died was because he played the game badly and so offended Helseth's sense of style?

A lot of what 'spies' come up with is common knowledge - though nevertheless potentially useful. However one advantage a spy has over an official representative is deniability - and the possibility that, if relations become so strained that officials are recalled, the spy can continue operations in the heart of the enemy's camp.

I think like you, the letter gives the sence that he knew exactly what was going on, who was spying for who etc.. But if I think more about how"cool" he is and Oh so evil and cruel (that would make even a Vampire Queen shuder) it makes me feel that their is probably more to this than what one first percieves.
As it is said as introduction to the letter "[King Helseth] had it privately printed (...)and sent to libraries and booksellers " it would seem to me to be more stuff of propaganda. That the story probably could hold some truth I don't doubt although doesn't mean it to be completely truthful. for example: everybody working for him is a spy? Sounds pretty a impressive entourage, he doesn't half pick 'em doesn't he. Especially as "He was in need of friendship when he first arrived in Morrowind and eagerly took to me and a few others" so he wanted friendship and chose a consort of spys? Nice one there.

Therefore I just think that the a Vampire queen was chosen just so that their is a "good" bad guy that is called "your unholdiness" (all the typical things you find for a typical bad "guy")! So that no one is un happy, well at least everyone except everyone concerned the Empire, the Temple, the Houses of Telvanni, of Redoran, of Indoril and especially the house of Dres (and even a breton family was thrown into the mix). Now why Dres was targeted we can only presume that maybe there was just such a spy that was from Dres and he problably wanted to send them the message that they were uncovered, but in the process why not just wink at all the other houses.

But by chosing Dhaunayne as the recipient, it let them a marging of unbief to the accusation or maybe he was just tell them subly that even if they thought he was in chec, they were being checked as well. Or maybe I am just thinking to much

That's an interestin point, and one I was hoping someone would touch on. The propaganda factor. If this is indeed propaganda, then it could be well-aimed on many levels:

1) he could well be striking fear into any spies in his household- always a good thing to do, makes them a bit more meek.
2) he could be making a statement towards any of the vampire factions that have staked a claim on his household.
3) he could also be making a statement to anyone who might consider spying in his household- if he considers everyone working for him to be a spy, then making it clear that nobody- even those that dine with him- are even close to being within his confidence would certainly make their job seem a lot harder- possibly even impossible.

And of course there is the matter of him having a reputation as one of the most cunning and ruthless rulers ever. Nothing better to make your enemies (and even your allies) more respectful and wary of you than to have something printed detailing exactly how ruthless and cunning you can be. Particularly if he his reptuation had been slipping of late.

*shrugs* I'm glad most people seem to think that Dhaunayne is the Queen Aundae (whether the account was real or propaganda- or both...), because that clears up my main question, though.

Oborrowind - here is a quote from the book that suggests the writer (who has now been clearly named and identified to Helseth) was aware that other spies were at that table:



Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Better the devil you know.

Bang on - I had overlooked that part. But ask yourself why that particular spy?

You might note that Helseth lost the throne to his half-sister and that Helseth is likely a bad loser. This was his sister's spy who had been successful. He was being killed as a warning to others that they are welcome to spy, but not to harm Helseth's plans - after all Helseth knows the game, eh? And also it may be that initially Helseth trusted his oldest courtier and was a mite peeved at that particular betrayal ... and note the success of that betrayal cost Helseth a Throne and Moprrowind a popular King?

So Helseth likes the game. He knew his oldest retainer so very well and the others at that dinner. And he let them choose their own fate. Basically they now know the price of being both hostile and overly effective, which may handicap them considerably when push comes to shove. The same for any others who have ambitions towards power or revenge.

Also it was so perfect because only his own man - a retainer - was killed. Thus none of the other powers represented there could suggest that he was hostile to them. He was saying I am very dangerous and soo clever and you will not outplay me without cost so be careful to stay within the bounds I set. Look at this loved retainer who betrayed me - he died by his own hand as a result of his lack of taste and style - you, my friends were smarter than he was and treated my table with respect. And as a consequence were perfectly safe.

Helseth may have looked at all the guests at that table directly, but there is one very special message to the Aundae and us. That Helseth does not share the Dunmer aversion to Vampires ... he has after all an Imperial education among other things ... and therefore that was a message to both the Aundae and separately the Dres that they could do business.

Vivec is not the only one who gives precise and carefully calculated Lessons

And thank you Illusionary Nothing for starting this thread, it has been most entertaining

Or perhaps Helseth wants them to know his plans. Which aren't really his plans, just a ruse to uncover the faithful and the traitors. If you've ever read the "Firsthold Revolt", you'd know Morgiah has the same shrewd, ruthless tendencies as Helseth. Maybe it's just in the genes to be a "one-step ahead of your enemy, paranoid child of the great Symmachus".