When Oblivion first came out, I was guilty of blaming the engine, it took me several years to realise that I should be blaming someone else.

So some people don't want certain finishers because it "pulls them out of the game", or they "lose control", but some people want climbing ladders, which do the same thing. This would make an interesting poll.

This thread. Wow.

They've been focusing for a long time now for making the gameplay as smooth as possible. Ladders are almost never smooth. They're clunky and they force you into one stationary position, and in Divinity 2 you couldn't jump off, you couldn't attack during it. Climbing up a ladder was not exciting. It was tedious. They used ladders in the past games as a way to transition between cells. It's not like ladders have anything to do with stealth. Getting to the tops of buildings can be achieved in other ways. And honestly, I don't remember ANY game where I was happy to be climbing up and down a ladder. It's always been a moment where I sigh, stop playing the game normally, and enter "climbing mode."

Screw ladders. Let's move on.

However their current engine isn't Gamebryo. This is proven by the fact that Creation Engine has no licensing costs so they made it from scratch. With a technology base of coarse. You always need a base to build from.

But yes Gamebryos functions are wide. Yes it can do ladders. BGS stated they ran into large bugs pertaining to NPCs. Not ladders themselves.

Also BGS uses a hand modified version of the licensed Gamebryo. Think of it as a buggier Unreal. Of coarse not every Gamebryo game has bugs. Rockstars Bully never crashed on me.

What kind of "losing control" are you referring while climbing a ladder? That you go in 3rd person? It's not necessary, Deus Ex has 1st person ladder climbing. That you can't fight while climbing? That is realistic, nobody should feel "out of the game" if the respective stance is in-game realistic.

The fact that Divinity didn't allow fighting on the ladder or jumping down doesn't mean it can't be done. Prince of Persia Sands of Time allows the player to jump of a rope in any desired spot. The same POP allows the player to fight enemies with one hand while he hangs off a cliff with the other hand. Tomb Raider and Prince of Persia are series where Bethesda could draw inspiration in the acrobatic department.

lol its a good thing they dont put ladder animation in,why?

imagine if u climb the ladder halfway and someone hit u,shud u fall down or continue climbing?in this process bethesta gonna think about a good animation so ppl wont complain " omg they fall like plastic bagzzz "

You misunderstood, the o.p. isn't asking for a ladder animation, he's asking for real time ladders. You engage it with your hands automatically when you're close enough to it and go up and down step by step as you wish. If you get hit while climbing it's the same as if you get hit while standing anywhere. If the hit is deadly, you fall dead. If it's not lethal, you are free to continue climbing or willingly jump off the ladder and fight the enemy.

Poll provided :foodndrink:

I WANNA BECOME A PROFESSIONAL LADDER CLIMBERS AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :shocking: :shocking: :shocking: :shocking: :shocking:

Would be nice for big cities like what Imperial City should've been (developed in height), escalade walls and [censored].

Thanks, but I moreso meant a poll asking people who don't like finishing moves how they feel about ladder climbing

I played a few of the Prince of Persia games and I didn't like climbing ladders there either. That "fighting" on the ladder was just swinging a sword blindly, not at all the control a TES player has and not something they could implement like that either.

Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should.

Haha oops I leave that one to you!

Erm...ladders are nice and ropes even moreso but this is Bethesda we're talking here... Iheck I'm glad they managed to upgrade the animations from horrible to decent.

Answering not sure. Any way of climbing would be a nice gameplay addition, but I couldn't care less for the animation, if this is what you mean with real time.

No, I wouldn't like an animation either, like replacing a loading screen with a cutscene. I just want the ladder to be like the house stairs: you use them freely up and down and not loose the control of your character, all that's changed is that your hands are no longer free to fight while climbing. Let's make this clear people, the video I posted in the first post is not an 'animation' climbing, it's not that I clicked on the ladder and the character did the climbing animation herself, it's 100% controlled by me. I could have stopped in the middle.

It's not "we can't do ladders." It's "how can we implement ladders without breaking a game this complex""

Of course I'd like ladders to be real ladders. In Oblivion all they do is a loading transition. Any means to get into places like roofs, towers and walls fits my playstyle perfectly, as I'm a light sneaky archer

Still not sure:

Variant1: Click on ladder, be teleported to other end, done, no loading-screen neccessary when within one cell. Done it several times in my MW mods.
Variant2: Click on ladder, lean back and watch an animation. A more tedious variant of #1
Variant3: Click on ladder get into ladder-climbing-mode move up / down and leave ladder when you're at the other end - even more pontless than #2

Variant 2 and 3 just waste my time with animations and an utterly boring mini game.

I feel pretty confident saying they have real time ladders. They said they improved all the things that were wrong with Fallout 3 off the bat in skyrim, and kept everything that worked pretty much. If you research the Unreal Animation suite they're using, you'd understand how trivial a ladder would be for this engine to work with.

Here's the link to the Engine's website.

http://www.unrealengine.com/features/animation/

360 ladder stall no-scope dragon shout anyone? :hubbahubba:

To each his own, I don't think climbing in real time is pointless. Following this judgement, actually picking the herbs one by one is tedious too, when you could have an instant "pick all herbs in this radius" button. The result is the same, but for me TES is about the journey. Also, the world is moving in real time. if they introduced ladders (I mean real ladders), you could change your mind halfway. Say you spotted an open window on a castle tower. Your access through the main gate has been denied. The tower has a ladder. If you have instant teleportation, you don't see the guard standing up there in the tower. He engages you as soon as the "teleportation" ends. On a real time ladder, when you're almost up, you can see or hear him and change your mind and climb down. Thats why I prefer real time for every single action in this game: it makes it harder, more realistic and opens new interesting situations! For example getting caught while lockpicking a chest because it's in real time. I think "all in real time" is the most fluid gameplay, look what they've done with the dialogue. Awesome!

Yes: Havok Behaviour.
This can allow quite complex character/environment interactivity through animation. something like sense handle and attachment modifiers, I guess that would be part of what is used in an instance such as this. I guess those nodes would be the one that is doing things like attaching the actor to the log in the logging/woodmill animation we have seen, and even used to attach 2 characters together in the random slomo death blow sequences.

Couldn't agree more. Takes control out of the players hands.