It doesn't take any control out of your hands. Did you read the OP? It's about real time ladders, not about animations that show your character doing the climbing. You are doing it, with the controller. You have 100% control all the time.

Beth has said that they just haven't done ladders because they're, uh, http://kotaku.com/5613374/hey-+-why-arent-there-any-ladders-in-fallout

So instead of activating a ladder and being instantly loaded into another cell, i'd have to activate a ladder and waste time climbing up and down? Tedious. Waste of time. No thank you.

Honestly I don't even like ladders because there's no real gameplay in it. You just scale something and take a break while you watch your character work hard. It's just a time filler to me.

Sorry, you still don't understand. The ladders I was talking about are not "transition from one cell to another" ladders. They are normal wooden ladders that help you reach high places, such as rooftops, defending towers, walls. Wooden ladders like in our countryside reality that help you climb from the ground to a higher platform that you can't reach otherwise. There's no loading cells implied.

Can enemies use the ladders in that game?

And btw, for truly great real-time ladders, check out dark souls. You can kick pursuers of the ladders, drag those above you down etc.

Aww come on people read the thread before posting, I was not talking about watching your character perform a climbing animation, I was talking about real time climbing. You do it, with your fingers.

Yes, I know. It's all about choice and consequences: Push the forward-key? you may arrive on top. Push the backwards key? You may arrive on the bottom.
Taking your avatar as an example: I just played trough Deus Ex HR, and once I got the "feather fall" augmentation, I never climbed down a ladder again.

If ladders make sense in level design, they work just as well when they are teleporters than they do with animations. Having to push a key to do the obvious adds nothing to gameplay.

When I saw the name for this thread I thought I was some online leadboards thread. Didn't even read the OP and voted no. Silly me. :shrug:

But yeah ladders and ropes would be awesome, maybe even windows can be used as doors to break into areas. There was even a mod for OB like this.

Soooo...I voted...yes!

No, in Divinity I never saw a npc using a ladder. The AI is nowhere near TES.

yea im remembering that stupid glitch that let you beat OB in like 5 minutes and imagineing how much easier that would have been with a ladder.
On a similar note how many glitches do you think addin this kind og unneccessary feature would create given beth's track record for glitches? :flamethrower: :brokencomputer:

Yeah, well then you really can't compare those two at all. Bethesda doesn't want to add it specifically because they have not figured out how to get the NPCs to work with it, not because they can't make an animation for the PC.

Very well said

Exactly, they must make sense in the world design. In Gothic 1 there was a structure of ladders that went very deep in a vertical mine.

Oh, no, the whole not sure how to implement them thing is bull. Basically, ladders would be mainly handled (at least movement) in havok. Havok has a freaking sample of how to use ladders with both of their character controllers, and bethesda games use those CCs and move them with motion extraction. They could implement them if they spent maybe an hour messing around with them. If I can do it they can.

I can agree here while the ladder leads to doors that are transition to another cell. There's no point of wasting the time on climbing that ladder, for sure.
BUT... if the ladder leads to a place that is exactly in the same cell then having any loading screen or teleporting system will be an immersion braking.

Just imagine you wander through the mountains and then you spot something flashing up there high on vertical slope.
And it will be a cosy camp with fireplace and a nice view on surroundings - all this in a small rocky cave, a carved niche rather than a proper dungeon.
And the place is only accessible by climbing a ladder which was left there by a previous camp owner.

Of course, ladders are by no any means a crucial game's element (at least not for Skyrim), but they can just add that "third dimension" to the world
which allows you to move vertically and access or discover many thing up there which aren't normally seen from the low perspective ;]

The only thing I would find useful about climbable ladders would be having them as an easier alternative to get to the roof of buildings in a city. Makes it easier to stealth around.

Ladders would make for very interesting additions to cities.

And JOG - if you're the JOG I think you are, you really should appreciate what they're asking for more than anyone else. Havish was a fookin' playground for thieves, and made half of a solid year more enjoyable to me. And ladders (preferably controllable) would make any city that much more interesting for new places to access and explore and steal from.


But of course, I forget - it's alright to waste years of development times on things like Combat and Magic, but anything that could possibly benefit the Stealth'ers isn't worth development, right? My epic desire in the Elder Scrolls games is to have a good time stealing [censored] in the hardest ways possible. Not slinging a damn sword. Ladders? Easy addition that wouldn't hurt nobody. But I suppose it's too much to ask for that they expand gameplay in areas where minorities want them, right?




Bethesda, you've already been alienating us true thieves. Ladders'd be a step in the right direction indeed.

Yes, they add to my gameplay. I find a watching post where you can only climb on a ladder, go up and start shooting arrows to the citizens. They can't come up but one by one, and I hack and slash them exactly in that order, because their hands are busy. Bring them ladders already! I also imagine some old ladders could be breakable. Go up, pull or break the ladder and start the sniper party. I'm talking about Tes VIII, of course, given the npc's are still backwards michaeljacksoning in Tes V.

Not to mention Prince of Persia 3D from 1999 which have ladders in it. Unless my memory is faulty, but I do remember there are at least poles, ropes and ledges in it that you can climb up on.

Todd stated at last years quakecon that ladders are always something that they try in their games but they can never get it right, and it makes them feel like bad developers

What's the point of having to hold the forward button to climb a ladder after you clicked on it? Most boring minigame ever.

Oh, the memories... exceptional game and atmosphere!

actual for a ps2 game it had very good graphics the npc's were pretty smart and there were many things that u could do in the castle their were secret passage ways u had to find and everything and not one had a loading screen to it when u opened it and this was on the ps2

What's the point of pressing forward to walk?