With all due respect, Bethesda animations are so bad that I'd be happy with small steps improvement. I'm eager to see what this Havoc Behaviour can do, the demo is pretty nice but I haven't seen any game using it.

Im no expert and I never go and watch "mock sword fights", but with the physical differences I would imagine a man and a woman might fight somewhat differently.

What bad animations? I would like to know? All their animations are great for when the game comes out. Looking back at the game now and comparing it to animations now is ridiculous. That's like looking back and Super Mario Bros. and saying their animations svcked and their physics were terrible.... Back when Oblivion was made and the games before, animations were made by hand by everyone. Now you you have stop motion animations which allow for realistic animation movements. It's short-sighted to say that Oblivion's animations svcked because the animations now are worlds better because animations today are based on real life movements and not hand crafted.

Yes I wouldn't mind seeing more of a difference in walking and running animation for the different genders.

This always bothers me in games as well. Most of the time its just corner cutting to keep the same skeleton and rigging for all characters. When you see your female character or just some female npc stomping around in the background like a bow legged cowboy I just cringe.

Pretty much all of them: running, jumping, swimming, eating and most of all, sneaking. I found them unnatural and stiff. I’m not comparing them to animations in other games, although I’m sure I’ve seen better, I'm comparing them to my ideal of video animation.

Geez, lets just play sims then :hubbahubba:

Wow...can't believe how many people got involved in this. I just want to say that I wasn't talk about some crazy hip swaying female a la GTA hokers, I just ment ment a different stance, slight more movement in the hips. I have 3 sisters and a lovely girlfriend of 4 years, women move differently than men not just to be sixy but because our body structures are different. I'm not being sixist, or perverted. I'm not asking for briast physics. I also like the idea of the animal races having different animations tham the more human like races. I would even go as far as to say that I would even like different legs. Hope I cleared up my intentions, and while I do think there are more important things to be covered there are already atleast 25 topics on every subject. Just voicing a question/opinion, which last time I checked was the whole point of these forums.

You have to judge them in context of the time they were made. For the time period they were made, where the animations were hand made with animation skeletons having to be manually moved in sequence to create an animation, they were good animations. They aren't good compared to real life but they were good for the time in game history. Now that we have motion capture animations, animations look realistic as if from real life, allowing for realistic animations, which are being used in Skyrim. We are at the point in game development where the animations will be up to your high standards but saying the animations in past games were bad is not fair at all when in truth, BGS did great with their animations.

I agree with gender animations I mean any improvement that makes them feel real is great. However I can't picture exactly how is a woman different in combat, you mean more clumsy? Is she bending to protect her briasts or I don't exactly get it.. truth is I never saw a woman fighting lol (and I'm sure I don't want to, in games is another story...)!

This. Women that learned how to fight the same way as her male counterpart will fight the same way. Now I'm all for different passive animations but saying that women need different combat animations implies that they need to have some helpless looking animations because they can't handle the same stances or fighting styles as men, which isn't true. My gf loves taekwondo, she fight as well as any man can and I don't see any difference in her fighting style as I do from the men.

I'd like to able to choose between several styles of walk, including one with a limp.

how about strength and size women can be tough and strong but the average man and women im saying average ok!! not working out just two average people the man is usually and i mean usually stronger. So when fighting it does take less for the male gender to swing a claymore and what not this is just because it is true now i know some tough chicks that can beat on guys and they do fight differently. Also i am not a sixist and as far as the game is concerned i dont really care so much but a man and women do move differently and fight differently.

As for the graphics i must agree with Sleign on that Oblivion had great animations and graphics for its time and i still enjoy them to this day.

I wasn't talking about combat, just normal walking and running. I don't see any problem with combat being the same. Even my gf when playing oblivion asked "why am I moving like a dude". Haha

I think Fallout 3 did well in this regard. New Vegas was probably a bit over the top, it was....mesmerising.

they dont need helpless fighting types, and with taekwondo its about speed and that is far far different than swinging a two handed axe that weighs idk lets say 40 pounds that takes not only strength but you have to have weight. Taekwondo to a medieval fighting is the same as baseball to football. both are sports and you need to have skill to do both and be in good shape but after that its a hole different game. I know because i played football for 4 years and i love to play baseball too lol and i can say they are very very different things

Exactly, I never even thought about it! Just that the male characters walked a little female-ish in Oblivion, but it's not very noticeable and nothing to really be concerned about. The animations in Oblivion were very neutral and while I'd like separate animations, no extreme stereotypes. Maybe it could depend more on how you're built? If your character's a burly warrior, he OR she will run/walk "masculine". But the difference should be VERY small, so skinny males don't necessarily look like sissies

You need strength, which women that are akin to fighting with weapons can have but for a two handed weapon, you don't need weight. The damage from a two handed axe is from it's own weight and from the leverage used from the handle. I wasn't comparing Taekwondo to sword fighting, it was an example to show that women with the exact same training can fight the same way as a man. It seems like people think that women are so much different than men and that everything they do can't be the same when in reality that's not true.

so a 110 pound women will swing the sword the same as a 220 pound man? this is the average for the area i live in lol. Also

weight not just strength helps with a swing and the women ingame are all of very slight build also height is a factor.

And Sleign you are right and wrong about two handed weapons once swung they do allot of damage but how is someone smaller supposed to swing something like that hell even lift it above their head? Greater weight and strength will increase speed,accuracy and the damage you do

i actually think everybody has their own personal somewhat unique manorisms. its just that girls typically have different ones than guys.
and they will probably at least have different walking/sitting animations between genders because they had that in fallout 3.

i also thought that the walk in oblivion was very feminine.

Claymores aren't actually that heavy. So our once resident swordsman told me, anyway.

And this is the problem, you assume that women can't lift a heavy weapon. Women aren't all petite that can't pick up a butter box with ease. Nirn is a world where women and men are equals, it isn't the middle ages where men subjugated women. There is constant strife in Tamriel, so women are required to take up arms just like men, so women in TES are hardy. They can lift a weapon and leverage on a two handed weapon like a war axe or a hand and a half sword is where the most of the power comes from. The women Tamriel can be just as strong as the men, so you can't assume they can't do the same things.

Fine than a warhammer or axe it really doesnt matter also claymores do have a bit of weight to them.


Edit: i didnt say they couldtnt or cant just they would very likely in real life experience do so differently

I love this community. It's really reassuring to know that you guys know how to appreciate female character NOT hypersixualised. Yeah, everyone loves eye-candy, but TES was never about that. That's one of the reason I quickly loved TES.

I would like to see some subtle differences in stance, according to gender, but also race and stature. High Elves could be more delicate, whereas Nords and Orcs could be more athletic.

IRL, I personnaly have different stances depending on what I'm wearing. Say, a skirt and small shoes, let me tell you I keep my knees close together. I worked in a warehouse, and when I put on my capped-boots and jeans... I walk much more dude-like. Although, I still have hips and yes, I do have to lift my arms a little if I cary things in both my hands. I use my hips a lot to cary things, which guys don't even think of doing, they don't need to, why would they?

I'm all for small differences in animation, nothing hypersixualised, because IRL, we're not. When a woman lifts something up, I tell you, she's not necessarily being gracious. I do feel that a female character in TES feels a little tomboyish, so just a little touch would be nice, nothing girly, I hate that. I won't identify to that.


Nightmare!

Warhammers also have leverage they get their strength from but the weight alone is deadly.