Try this... Stand a few feet from a wall, just beyond where you can touch it with your finger (arms outstretched). Set a chair in front of you. lean over the chair, such that your legs are straight and your back is parallel with the ceiling. Touch your head to the wall. Lift the chair an inch off the ground. Now stand up straight without moving your feet. Women can do this.

Flexibility doesn't help anything when you're in a rigid position that's completely off balance. What I don't understand is how a woman can do that, kneel and bend 90 degrees over without falling. It's like weighing your entire upper body against your lower legs, not possible or am I doing something wrong?

Different center of balance.

Ok... I just know (don't ask how), I just know I'm going to find three nords in the pub trying this stunt when I play Skyrim. :lmao:

**Edit... Took me a while, but I found an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAu-qeXj9ko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qtWIjwsfGw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zDYX2sCXeo

And the alternate example... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSrW_Ju0VSs

Well said, nice style. I don't think the way the characters move is too masculine. I mean, it would not be very beneficial or realistic for the creators to use over-blown stereotypical movements for the female characters. That would be disgraceful and a step backward rather than forward. I'm a RL woman, and I can say that women only walk differently if they want to look and feel more appealing to men. Likewise, men only walk differently if they are looking to impress.

Women have their center of balance around the hips, representing more than half their weight. That weight is vertical to the ground and their upper body is lighter, easier to lift. Men, on the other hand, put most of their weight horizontalely, forward. Weight put forward gets heavier (physical law) and therefore is even harder to lift. Let's say that a man's upper body weights around 60% their total mass, put forward, it weight about 70% against, the rest 40%. You fall. The same happens to women, but most part of their total mass is back to the wall, vertical to it. Easier. Like 60% on the wall, and 55-60% horizontally. It's hard, but easier than for men.

That's the way I understand it, anyway.

Yes thats will be very good, Spriggans in oblivion was much more feminine then NPC or PC females, not need to make sixy walks for females just make them natural because in oblivion they move like pregnant cow, make manly walks for males, with power in steps does new animation tools and new engine cant handle it?

I would prefer to give Khajiit and agorians beast legs and a separate walk animation, far better use of animator work time.

I'd like that as well.

Women walk differently. As do beast races, people of different ages and health. Havok Behavior should give them the tools to create specific animations for a variety of groups. I hope they will use them.

Agreed.

/shrug I didn't see anyone saying anything of the sort. Why does every person on the internet immediately jump to ridiculous levels of hyperbole as soon as they disagree with something? :facepalm:

It would be great to see fat characters waddle! It would also be fun to see Khajiit prowl and Argonians run like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ut5jENqBX8!

As for the gender difference, I've always thought the males wiggle their butts too much when they walk. However, burdened with armor, weapons, and loot, who's going to walk like a lady? If both genders took longer strides running and walking, then they'd look more realistic.

Not in an outrageously I'm-going-to-sleep-with-every-man-in-the-building way or anything. Women do walk differently to men though, so a little animation tweaking from Bethesda wouldn't hurt (there was even a little in Dragon Quest IX I believe)

I'm pretty sure Oblivion had gender specific animations (although it's been a while since I played it). Fallout 3 definitely did. For Fallout: New Vegas, Obsidian got a bit carried away and gave females a catwalk hip-swinging walk cycle! A bit over the top.

Of course, in reality everyone has their own individual walk. You can usually recognize someone you know from behind by their walk, or even just the sound of their footfalls. I remember seeing a video of Richard Williams (animator, and author of The Animator's Survival Kit) sitting in a park and timing the walk cycles of people passing by (by eye, he's that good), and they were all quite different. Even the pigeons! That might be a bit too much to ask though!

You can usually easily instinctively spot someone's gender by the way they walk, even if they're covered up; and it stands out when you see a flat footed, hip static female, or a mincing guy! So yeah, I'm sure Bethesda will do some gender specific animations.

I just don't want my character to sit like shepard in me2.

Actually I thought New Vegas' animations for women better than those of FO3.

Agreed, perhaps it was a bit to much catwalk, but I thought the female protagonist in FO3 walked like a sulking teenager. Of course, the Lone Wanderer wasn't much more than a teenager, but still. In NV the female courier walked like a grown woman.

Anyway, I find it strange that people automaticly assume it's some sort of sixist ploy to have women tripping along daintily. I want both the male and the female protagonist to walk in long, confident strides. However, men and women strides differently, and it looks silly if they move in the same way. Imagine if you could play a female character in The Witcher, and she too would walk with that swagger Geralt has. :wacko:

They are using Havok Behavior, I would hope they would utilize it

ME and DAO are pretty much exactly that scenario and it looks terrible. I don't actually recall Oblivion because I've been using animation mods for forever. Hopefully they have separate and good animations this time around. Even if they don't have separate animations at least make it easier to mod in gender and even race specific animations later.

Yep, I can totally imagine that and it looks ridiculous indeed.

Hasn't concerned me in oblivion but I'd like to see a difference. I think fallout New Vegas did a nice job of it, maybe a bit overdone but it was good to see a difference.

It's nothing really about gender stereotypes, but women and men do move differently, obviously. Different bone structures and muscle habits. That said it doesn't necessarily need to be masculine or feminine, but they should be different. Also hope they continue with the attribute dimorphism between genders in Skyrim, that was a neat feature. Higher intelligence/willpower but lower strength/endurance generally in woman vs man.

Gender should be just as important as race when it comes to skills, visual differences and attributes.

I have never noticed any differences in how my female friends walk.

Walking style is a very individual thing. Things like length of the legs, weigth and foremost posture attributes to how you walk, and how you run in particular.

I'd rather have a single animation for both genders, or do more dynamical animations that take your body type and maybe even race into account, than have just two diametrally different animations.

Well khajiits can have beast legs to be more realistic in response to them being cat people but argonians are fine having the same legs as other humanoids. Lizards have front bending knees.



Well it definitely wasn't a hyperbole seeing as how it wasn't an intentional exaggeration, let alone an exaggeration at all. People need to realize that language is multi-layered and multifaceted and that just because someone doesn't say something out right, it's the underlying meaning that matters.

It should all come down to the character really, I can't imagine my Nord barbarian female Hell-Gah the Great walk with any grace at all, even imperial men would walk in a more female way than Hell-Gah does!

I lol'd at Hell-gah!

Slightly different and more characteristically varied animations are somthing I would call essential. Differences in fighting styles should only lend towards a females more natural grace and flexibility. And for all you people using 40lb battle axes and 20lb claymores as examples, I regretfully inform you that a battle axe is closer to 4-7lbs and a claymore rarely more than 2-5lbs. Also beast races with somewhat anitomically beast appropriate legs and animations would be superb.