This is ridiculous. This shouldn't even be an issue.

I'd like to eventually have a permanent option of becoming a ghoul (no reversals), but I can't. I'd like all kinds of things. But I'll have to mod or imagine it.

And Fallout has NEVER been blank slate.

I like your Frank Horrigan avatar. Makes me want to play FO2 again lol.

For the very same reasons I have already stated. Appealing to a TINY minority of gamers. Left-handers outnumber gays by at least 3:1, but, you don't see anyone starting dozens of threads about not being able to be left handed do you? In the overall scheme of things, Beth has bigger/better things to worry about, than catering to an insignificant percentage of their target audience.

Again, no one is asking for a complete blank slate. We're asking for something that's a better balance between having your lifestyle, spouse, child, financial situation, voice, and profession chosen for you, and a complete blank nobody with no backstory or personality. To a lot of people, Fallout 4's protagonist is just too established. He's a military vet with a loving family who seemingly loves his family who can afford a nice house in pre-war suburbia who has a wife and a young son named Shaun. Compare that to Fallout 3, where you're some kid raised in a vault with a scientist dad. I feel as though 3 was a better balance than 4 is shaping up to be.

I understand that you don't care about having an almost fully established backstory. I'm sure you're fine with having a pre-made character with his own lifestyle and behavior that may be seperate from yours. I don't mind that either, in most games. I love The Witcher, I love Mass Effect, but I play Fallout for entirely different reasons than those games. Can you at least try to understand why some people may be a little bit disappointed by this more established character? If I wanted to experience the story of an already-made character I'd play Mass Effect or The Witcher. Fallout does not have to be those games. I play Fallout BECAUSE it's not those games. It offers something different.

Only Fallout:NV (not done by beth, by the way) DOESN'T give you an already established character, that has a set background, and even in NV, the DLC kinda put the kibosh on that. FO:4 is no different than ANY of the other games.

And once again, the LGBT crowd makes up LESS THAN 3% of the population. Perhaps a bit more of gamers. WHY on god's little green acre should a large corporation spend the time, effort, money, and resources, on implementing something that so very few would even consider using?

THIS is what annoys most folks about the whole LGBT movement in general. The whole "I am special, and the world should cater to what I want, no matter who else I am stepping on, to get it."

You can RP whatever you want. Bethesda obviously includes a family for story-based reasons because they mentioned the baby reflecting the look of the parents.

YOu can MAKE a Mixed Racial couple so that argument doesn't hold any weight. If 2077 has no problem with mixed racial couples as in you can make one as the player and it is not coomented on then this idea that you can't be a same six couple in 2077 because of the 1950's doesn't hold water.

The fact that you argue so much against the game including this makes me wonder, it has zero impact on your game play.

Now you are just talking out of your [insert body part here]. By all means show me the proof that left handedness is 3 times more common than homosixuality. I'd love to see these 'facts.' And sixual orientation is a far greater impact on identity then handedness. this example is both false and not an equivalent comparison. Self reporting has been shown to be a poor indicator of behaviour and no one uses it as anything other than the number of people who willingly identify themselves with a given behavour. Homosixuality has a long history of discrimination and that makes people being unwilling to say they are gay on a cenus all the more likely.

My goodness, I'm trying not to be rude, but how many times do I have to say this? We're going in circles here.

I DON'T want a blank slate. I want a somewhat established character. I just feel as though Fallout 4 has established TOO MANY things.

In Fallout 4, your lifestyle, spouse, child, financial situation, voice, and profession are chosen for you. He (or she) is a military vet with a seemingly loving family who seemingly loves his family. He can afford a nice house in pre-war suburbia. He has a wife and a young son named Shaun. He's about to give a speech at a veteran's ball about how war never changes and how he's worried about his family (according to the leaked info that's been all but confirmed at this point since literally everything in it has been true so far, even the protagonist's default appearance). He goes into a vault with his family and wakes up 200 years later to find his wife and child missing and the world in shambles. Fallout 3 had a lot of backstory, but most of it didn't directly involve your character. You're just some kid born in the wasteland, raised in a vault, and your dad is an awesome scientist. No choices were forced upon your character before the game started. The only real restriction is your character's age (19) which I admit is annoying if you want to play an older character.

Again, clearly you don't care either way, but many people don't like such an established backstory. I don't play Fallout for that sort of thing. If I want that I'll play The Witcher of Mass Effect. I play Fallout to have a more freeform character with less of a determined backstory (not a COMPLETE blank slate, but less than Fallout 4) and to build my own character around a basic backstory.

Who is being stepped on? How does 3% of the population manage to step on so many people? Do we have vast economic and political clout?

Clearly you don't know anything about the LGBT community. No one is demanding to be treated like they're special or should be catered to what we ARE asking is for equality, equality that we rarely ever get. Now can you either stop being offensive or take your anti-LGBT views elsewhere.

No, instead of giving you a character that has an established background, they give you a character that cannot have any background at all.

Dude (I assume) how can you even say that in a thread where we have to defend Bethesda's right to make a straight couple at the beginning of the game. Have you not been reading this thread? It's new members that suddenly pop up the forums whenever a game is announced so they can push the rainbow as far as possible into every game made that gives me bad feelings overall about the LGBT community.

I've been here for four years, I'm patriarch level in post count, I'm an active user on these forums and have been for a long time. I'm not some new person demanding something. What I am doing is suggesting that Bethesda actually do what few game companies can and make the game more inclusive to people who identify as other sixual preferences besides heterosixual.

No one is taking away the straight couple, no one is demanding that Bethesda forces straight couple to go away what we are ASKING is for bethesda to be more inclusive.

Right but now explain to me:

1. Who is being stepped on? Bethesda? Straight people? How are they being stepped on?

2. Do you think it's reasonable to get a 'bad feeling' about the LGBT community AT LARGE because you object to the behaviour of LGBT gamers?

3. Would you have found this behaviour more palatable if it came from long standing forum members?

Although I would just like to take this opportunity to say, again, that I don't really care about the initial setup. It makes sense. But I DO want the opportunity to be gay AFTER the tutorial. Backed up by perks like confirmed bachelor/cherchez la femme and dialogue options.

A better question t ask is why is one side assuming they speak for the entirety, when they only speak for themselves, of a group. Last time I checked I didn't hold the same viewpoint as those asking for diversity.

Surprise; most of us don't care either who are LBGT. Just a small vocal group calling for this. It is the main reason most avoid the entire politics surrounding this to begin with. Waste of time.

At least three of us have been on this forum for years. A few other long-standing members criticized the protagonist's restricted background without focusing specifically on sixual orientation. Please don't try to pass it off as an outside invasion. Even if it was, new members' posts carry the same weight as ours.

We do not "push the rainbow", we don't want to take anything away from you, we simply ask for more options if at all possible. Is it such a bad thing? At least we try to avoid insulting and belittling other posters; I can't say the same for all opponents of the inclusion of same-six relations.

Yes you are. You are clamoring for 'feature', that isn't necessary for game play, adds nothing for the vast majority of players, and can easily be worked around. Kinda like handedness. You are a very small minority of the gaming population, yet you are screaming to be catered to. Do you see ANY other group, of any kind, making thread after thread after thread whining that they can't be X? And this is just a GAME! Maybe if you represented closer to 50% of the gaming population, or even 30.... I could see that you might have a leg to stand on, but, given the current conditions, it's just the "I'm special, give me what I want." whining. You can insult me all you want, but, that doesn't change this basic fact.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lisbian-or-bisixual/ 96.6% of advlts identified as straight.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-are-more-people-right/ 70-95% of the population is right-handed. The rest are either left-handed, or, ambidextrous.

There, numbers proving my point. Happy now?

For the rest of that discussion, this is most certainly NOT the place to have it.

AGAIN NO ONE LITERALLY NO ONE IS ASKING TO BE TREATED LIKE THEY'RE SPECIAL

All we are freaking asking for is for Bethesda to be inclusive. We already go through a lot of crap, discrimination and have our voices shot down ALL THE DAMN TIME. We're not asking to be treated special because we want to feel like everyone else, because we want to be treated LIKE EQUALS, to be given a chance to express ourselves. For you it's just a game but the fact that there are VERY FEW forms of entertainment we can be who we are without fear of persecution or discrimination so sorry for trying to be who I am in a video game.

What you seem to fail to understand is, YES, YOU ARE ASKING TO BE TREATED SPECIAL.

You are asking for a feature that a vast majority will not use. You are asking Beth to dedicate time, resources, MONEY, at an issue that only 3 out of 100 gamers (maybe) would use. How is that NOT asking for special treatment? My guess is, most simply won't care, as it is probably less than 30 minutes of gameplay, in the very beginning, that is likely to have very little bearing on the rest of the game. ROLE PLAY! It's a GAME! Pretend you got married, and had a kid, so you could fit in with the current society. Is that really so difficult?

Not... really. I googled the definition of 'special' and got: 'different, greater or otherwise different from what is usual.'

So if someone asks for representation, which everybody/a substantial portion of the population gets by default, isn't that asking to be treated normally?

This thread is missing one word:

"Triggered!"



ayy

Shh, cut the caps Cider or you'll validate LeBurns' accusation of screaming.

I see these people complaining here and there. Not on this forum because it probably isn't necessary, at least not until we know more about the game, but these are groups that often need "special treatment" and additional features to help them enjoy video games. Subtitles, text chat in multiplayer games, colorblind mode, flexible key remapping. Some of these features are useful for everyone, some are more obscure (like directional arrow keys on screen in Legend of Grimrock, added at the request of a disabled fan who uses a mouthstick for typing).

That's UI though, not gameplay. I don't see how we could play a blind, deaf or mute character in this game. Mute, maybe, but the other two clash with the fundamental gameplay too much. Crippled limbs would be interesting, though.

Funnily enough though, the LGBT crowd IS 'different from what is usual'.

Thank you for proving my point.

Right. But why does that automatically necessitate 'special' treatment to go with the 'special' label?