IIRC, his mother was Elven, so he became old before she was.

I'm not sure what you are getting at? I wasn't speaking directly about that emperor, I was highlighting it as an interesting use of language, that turn of phrase implies that Bretons age differently to the other human races and could be taken as evidence that they generally live longer, but oviously not as long as elves.

On the topic of elves, is it taken for granted that Altmer live longest? Or are Altmer and Dunmer about the same? What about Bosmer? I would expect, given thier over all more diminutive stature that they do not live as long as the other races of elf, but would still live longer than Bretons and the other races.

Nevermind, I was incorrectly recalling arguments from http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=840787&st=0&p=12229946&hl=aged%20like%20breton&#entry12229946 on the same subject.

My opinion, is that it is not how much you use magicka, or how much of it you have, but that, Magical Beings live longer.

Dunmer live shorter lives than other Mer because they were cursed.

Altmer are the most Magical beings, so they live the longest, with one of their gods supposedly teaching them to live longer by walking in shorter strides, which could mean by living slower. (IE: taking care of themselves better. )

And with Bretons being Half-Altmer essentially, they would have longer lives because they are more magical beings.

You could increase your magicka all you want, i believe generally, someone born more inept at magic would live longer.

IMHO, i believe it is a VERY vague thing. It is hard to describe who is a more "Magical Being", and who is not.

not sure you meant to use 'inept' there.

:lol: I'm sure you know he meant adept, but that was funny.

So you don't think Orcs who become powerful sorcerers could extend their lifespans at all? Or just not as much as other races?

Necromancy is just defined as " Death Magic" (in the post-Tolkien sense). Staving off death is seemingly also an application of this. Just because they're not stereotypically turning into lichs or anything doesn't mean its not necromantic. I mean, if you want to get nitpicky, all magic is really the same and they can call it whatever they want.

Not if they BECOME them.
They must be born ADEPT at magic, but due to a curse from the gods being thrown upon them, they could not extend it too much.
Only by being one of these "Magic Beings"

What's your source for all this? I'm curious. I know it has something to do with blood, since Altmer are obsessed with remaining "pure", but this whole "magical being" thing appears to be entirely your own creation.

It is not clearly defined or stated anywhere, but nearly all the "Heroes" of Tamriel have lived long lives, and done amazing things, oft associated with some form of magic.

The proof is there, it just needs to be dug for. The livespan is directly linked to how naturally adept one is at magic, with the slight exception of the Average Dunmer, one would expect lifespans similar to Altmer, but they were cursed. An exception to this is Barenziah, who seems to be one of these "Magical beings."

One could state as an uncertain rule that being a magical being is synonymous with doing great things.

*throws arms in air* Does everything in TES lore have to be about magics and mytstics? Maybe Barenziah lives longer because shes after a well cared for noble (rough childhood notwithstanding)?

I still think this hypothesis is a far stretch, based on only flimsy links to lore. Sure, if you squint your eyes an dlook sidewards at the texts you could see it, maybe, but unless we have text stating this more directly it wont hold IMO.

It's said in Skingrad that a master sorceror inevidably outlives his peers, which is credible enough to serve as a cover for Count Hassildor's vampire-induced immortality. In addition, many of the Telvanni Lords are over a thousand years old, and Divayth Fyr is said to be four thousand years old. It seems that magic can be used to prolong somebody's lifespan, but it's certainly not the only way. Barenziah, yeah, I'd wager that was due to better care and better living conditions.

Sounds reasonable, the royalty in England who don't speed through tunnels seem to live for centuries.

I wasnt aware that England had a merish royalty.
For that matter, I wasnt aware England still has an own royalty at all.

We tend to keep you out of the loop on things.

England doesn't have its own monarchy. It has been a conquered nation for the last four hundred years since the takeover by a Scottish king in 1603 took the independence of both nations. In 1707, with a descendant of that king still on the throne, and after the persuasion of a Campbell who approached the Scottish parliament, both parliaments, and both independent monarchies were, in theory, abolished (in practice it doesn't work for reasons I won't go into here...let's just say the Act of Union in 1707 is no longer relevant and leave it at that). If you're interested, pm me.

I'm not gonna drag this any more off-topic

Of course, Churchill signed the Treaty of Potsdam as PM of England
Time to revise your position, eh?

I don't need to revise my position.

England was not, and hasn't been for centuries, an independent country, by law and by tradition. Churchill was the PM of Britain, not England, and if he signed himself as the latter then that treaty is redundant. Might as well have signed it PM of the Atlantic, as England has no political power of its own and England is not the name of the country it is a part of, official or unofficial.
England did not fight either World War as an independent country, and as a result has no influence in the post-war politics. Churchill signed that treaty with an invalid title.

Back on topic, I don't think the Telvanni do use actual necromancy. They are the ultimate traditionalists, and tradition dictates that necromancy is forbidden. They likely use the same type of magic that the Heart of Lorkhan gave to the Tribunal.

You do realize that even at best, what the Tribunal did to Lorkhan was a form of Necromancy or even Vampirism?

Yes, but it's not the necromancy that is hated by almost all Dunmer, so the Telvanni using it isn't a big deal.

I'm not seeing any basis for your argument, and just saying "the proof is there" really means nothing. It might be true that naturally 'magic beings' do live longer than normal ones, but there's nothing to support your statement that somebody who "becomes" magickal can't live just as long...


Also, I don't know where you're getting your last line about magical beings being the same as those who do great thing... it's more along the lines of that those just happen to be the people that usually do great things...

What the crap brought that on???

The "aged like a Breton" line refers to Cassynder, and the sense and context it's used in make it disparaging.

"When Cassynder became Emperor at the death of his mother, Empress Katariah, in 3E 200, he was already middle-aged. Only half-elven, he aged like a Breton. In fact, he had left the rule of Wayrest to his half-brother Uriel due to poor health. Nevertheless, as the only true blood relation of Pelagius, and thus Tiber Septim, he was pressed into accepting the throne. His rule was a short as he died after only two years on the throne in 3E 202 which was assumed by his half-brother, Uriel Lariat (Uriel IV)."

So he was middle-aged by standards such as are applied to half-elves and Bretons at the time. He can't have been older than 59, as Katariah had married Pelagius III in 3E141. "Aged like a Breton" is clearly disparaging, as "in fact, he had left the rule of Wayrest... due to poor health" immediately follows and explains the phrase and his condition.

By the only example we are given, there is no other conclusion to draw than that Bretons are not long-lived and are known for not being hale in old age.

That was not a conquest. The last time England was conquered, it was by a French Norman. That was an actual conquest, with a lot of burly men coming with weapons in hands and killing other burly men until only one side remained. Said French Norman was even called "William the Conqueror" because he conquered with a conquest. See how it works? James VI never conquered England, he was simply chosen to be the successor of Elizabeth I who had borne no direct heir. That was not a conquest, or if it was then I suppose the United Kingdom has been conquered by Germany in 1714, when the Duke of Brunswick and Elector of Hanover, good old George I, "conquered" the UK. And it's still a German dominion since the current ruling dynasty, the House of Windsor, is just a renamed branch of the German House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, which got into the throne because Albert of SCG married Queen Victoria. Makes sense, doesn't it? By your logic, Scotland belongs to the Germans.

I honestly think the reason the Temple and the other Houses don't try to stop the Telvanni from their Necromancy and Daedra Trafficking is that they fear the Mage Lords, and would rather not face them or confront them as long as they keep to themselves - not because it's considered normal or morally right in Morrowind, but out of simple fear.