That's what he's saying. Video games aren't "made" with the sole purpose of being fun, with a side bonus of cash. Games are made to make money; in order to make money, they have to make the game fun. He's not "hating" on game developers.

Geohotz really didn't break any rules Sony had in their Terms of Service. They just had the money to hire better lawyers, scaring him into the joint agreement.

Food for thought: If Sony really had a solid case that its team of excellent lawyers could argue, wouldn't they take GeoHotz for every single thing he has? Yes. Yes they would. But they don't have a solid case, so they bluffed and took what they could.

I think you misunderstood what hacking the console means; it basically grants root access to the user.

It does not mean that there will be more cheaters in game, because you can't connect to the PSN with a hacked console.

Why?

So he didn't win and this will affect no one who legally uses their consoles online.

Looks like that's the thread done.

Man that guy is amazazing. Props to him!! :thumbsup: (His dedication and skills that is)

There are places in my area advertising PS3 chips coming soon.. wonder if it will become as casual as 360 and wii mods :shrug:

GeoHotz actually winning would have been a great thing. I can understand why they did this, though.

Anyway, what's done is done - if geohotz had have lost, do you really think that hacking would have magically gone away? It don't work like that, sugarcube. The case was more about consumers having the freedom to use the things they buy for things not originally intended - jailbreaking your iphones, for example, was recently declared legal. This is similar, just with something in a larger box. Even if sony had won (Which would have had huge implications for the consumer), that's not going to fix their massive security holes. But don't worry, having an open system doesn't mean online will be ruined - the PC has been an even more open system forever, but there's also the protection to go with it, whether that comes in an automated form for manual administration. Console online gaming will simply have to adapt - security through obscurity has this problem, after all. The moment it's discovered, you have to deal with everything at once.

Pretty much my intended post. Cracking a system open without bad intentions, my rear. You'd have to be pretty hypocritical or just blind to not see that people will use that to cheat and steal.

Just because other people can use his hack to cheat and steal doesn't mean his intentions were bad.

I just means he was a linux user, they like opening stuff.

Stating anonymous could do anything to sony. That is a funny joke. And the people who think this is a win for 360 users that is quite funny as well too , the 360 has been hacked too as well so I don't see where the "win" is.Anyhow I am nice person all in all but I like intelligent discussion and not console bashing. Personally I hope there is some hope that I won't run into a hacker again in PSN network games, sure I haven't seen much but they are still out there ruining the game.
P.S. I am not trying to insult people whatsoever.

EDIT: Oh wait I forgot about that update which bans hacked consoles, I think it still works. I forgot when I got into that game with the guy who was immortal. I guess that changes thing a bit.

1) "Hacked" console (a.k.a jailbreaking, running unsigned code, etc) does not dramatically increase the likelihood that users will be able to hack online games. People have been cheating at online games on both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 long before either were "rooted."

2) Yes, hacking / running unsigned code on a console can lead to piracy. It's happened on every console that's ever existed (except for maybe the Virtual Boy ). It will continue to happen on future consoles, regardless of what the law permits or does not permit.

3) One of the major reasons people like GeoHotz go through all the trouble of hacking / running unsigned code on their consoles is because they want to use their console for something that it wasn't originally intended. Even the http://exophase.com/15361/united-states-air-force-shares-disappointment-over-otheros-removal/ does things like this, due to console's low price / high computational power ratios. But, since all new PS3s disallow the Other OS option, there isn't much the USAF can do when it comes to fixing or replacing broken PS3s in their server cluster.

4) Sony originally allowed PS3 users to run Linux on their console. Then, citing piracy concerns, they removed it in a firmware update. GeoHotz rooted / cracked the PS3s signing code (which was a broken system even before he got to it) with the intention (or so he claims) of allowing people to update their PS3 firmware while still allowing them to run Linux on their console.

Only the first gen consoles can run linux? Or any fat ps3 can run linux?

If its updated, can the update be removed?

1) I believe so (this may also apply to PS3s that can run PS2 games).
2) Some of them (depending on model number?).
3) As far as I know, no / not easily.

I am certainly no expert on the PS3 or PS3 rooting, so my answers could be wrong.

No, it does not. Still, you can't just wash your hands of this. To start quoting a box in Amazing Fantasy #15, "With great power..."

Doesn't matter what the outcome of the trial was. Sony lost way before it went to court. That key is out there now, and there's no way they're stopping it.

The release of an encryption key should not be an illegal action. If it were, it would have far reaching consequences. This isn't a case about people cheating in online video games, it's about the consumer right to use a product for things not explicitly allowed by the creators.

Because they've all gone out of business.

Actually they already did. They just happened to go beyond the impossible and implement a new security system that's compatible with the old one, but does not rely on the root key any longer, with firmware three point six oh.

ok
First of all: You answered your own question "I don't know if what he did was technically illegal or not, but who cares?"...come on now, you called him the modern day Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor....from what I understand stealing is quite illegal, regardless.
2nd: yes....all companies need to make money, but most people don't get into the video game industry without knowing about what makes video games good and fun, if games aren't fun then the games aren't bought, therefor the company makes no money.
3rd: How are developers still making profit it the game isn't being bought?
4th: Right, law are nothing, let just live in a place with absolutely no rules (aka laws) to prevent anyone from killing anyone without consequences. Let me ask you something, if someone broke into a store in stole something that would be illegal and no-one in a sane mind would debate that. Now lets say it's your house that was broken into and stuff was stole from you, against not debatable, even if he didn't technical "Break-in" but instead found the key under your door mat, that's still illegal So why is it debatable that this is not? He is allowing people to steal. Only it's a sequence of break-ins branching out to multiple victims. Doing so over the internet dose make it any less illegal, it just makes people stupid for thinking it is.

The GeoHotz supporters make no sense, so he found a loophole in Sony's ToS so he played by the rules and shouldn't get in trouble, but even if he didn't who cares he should be allowed to do it? :facepalm:
Hacking a console and messing with it for personal use, like maybe changing the menu or cheating on single player games isn't too bad, but when it involves online and stealing, THEN it's a problem with is what happen.

Hacking is still a problem and I hope Geohotz and the rest of the hackers keep losing. and eventually fail completely. You may think what they are doing is good but it's not. It will only screw over the consumer even more because Sony/who ever, will crack down and then basically in the future you won't have legal modding or you need to have confirmation online in order to play a game which is stupid. That's what this will lead too. This svcks for the good PS3 users who just want to play their system, possibly go on the PSN and get stuff or play games online but then they have to be worried about their console being hacked or somebody cheating online. I know Sony isn't a saint but they are way better then these hackers who will just rule the console with Vigilitism if they take control out of Sony's hands because they'll be powerless to stop the hackers.

You are writing about laws and morality in what appears to be a very black-white manner.

First of all, the console is owned by an individual. Therefore, it is personal property, which allows for modification / destruction / whatever of the property as owned by the individual. The software running on the PS3 is intellectual property and is licensed for use by the individual from Sony (something I strongly disagree with - not owning software is silly and really doesn't prevent anything). Intellectual property typically comes with an EULA, which likely prohibits exactly what GeoHotz did.

The Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) says this about circumvention systems:
Obviously, based upon this definition, GeoHotz actions "facilitated" copyright infringement (though about the same level as producing weapons "facilitates" killing people).

As to your larger point about legality - what is legal is not necessarily what is good, and what is good is not necessarily what is legal. There are many laws I could quote that were on the books fifty years ago but were found to be wrong or changed along with society. The question of what is good and what is bad should not merely stop at what is lawful and what is unlawful - that simply stifles the debate about how society (and its laws) may change over time and in what direction the society wishes to take.

1) We already are required, with many games, to have online confirmation (see DRM).
2) Hackers will never go away.
3) DRM, on the whole, hurts game owners much more than it hurts game pirates.
4) Hacking is NOT the same thing as piracy. Hacking skills can facilitate piracy, but hacking is not solely piracy.

Erm...Geohotz didn't do any of that. He published the PS3's key. Some people can use it for piracy but others can use it to reenable OtherOS. A feature they had which was suddenly taken away. If you bought a car, and suddenly 7 months later, the manufacturer sends out technicians to forcibly disable cruise control on your car, wouldn't you be a little ticked off?

Well the problem is you can never really tell a person/person's motivations/actions when they exist within those so called "Cloak and Dagger" groups. Even right now just typing that up I could garner someone's ire that is in Anonymous and next thing I know all my stuff is gone from WoW, my bank accounts cleaned out, my life destroyed over a simple little sentence.

As for the GeoHotz wins over Sony I think it's the other way around where Sony won over him actually. They stopped his efforts and they won't pursue charges against him if he keeps up his end of the deal.

Excellent anology. Wish I had thought of it.

Leaving out the Jailbreak, this might work. But since that was the start of it all, a more fitting anology would be a new and shiny, configurable electric lock, which just so happened to be open for alterations which would allow anyone to drive any car. So Sony went out and downgraded those locks to old and boring ones, which were then thought to be secure. And then some George guy comes along and tells everyone how to build a skeleton key for those.

Of course, we have to remember that Sony only added those fancy electronic locks because the European Union then classified the PS3 as a "computer" versus a "games console" which saved Sony a boatload of money on importing the console into the EU.