GeoHotz Wins over Sony, which is bad. Very bad.

Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:00 pm

So GeoHotz is Charlie Sheen and Sony is.. everyone else?
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Vicki Blondie
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:27 pm

Of course, we have to remember that Sony only added those fancy electronic locks because the European Union then classified the PS3 as a "computer" versus a "games console" which saved Sony a boatload of money on importing the console into the EU.

They did? Well blimey, that's a wicked decision. ^_^
Any links to statements about that though? I could swear that consoles and computers are under the same classification.
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Quick draw II
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:55 pm

They did? Well blimey, that's a wicked decision. ^_^
Any links to statements about that though? I could swear that consoles and computers are under the same classification.
http://kotaku.com/#!179245/why-the-ps3-is-a-computer-sony-dodges-euro-tax-men (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hKpJWdQiyDUJ:kotaku.com/%3F_escaped_fragment_%3D179245/why-the-ps3-is-a-computer-sony-dodges-euro-tax-men+http://kotaku.com/%23!179245/why-the-ps3-is-a-computer-sony-dodges-euro-tax-men&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com).
http://kotaku.com/#!179182/kutaragi-the-ps3-aint-no-game-console-its-a-computer.
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evelina c
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:21 am

ugh, I'm so sick and tired of Sony acting like they are above the law. It's disgusting to see Sony use their size and financial power to attack brilliant people like Geohotz. I'm glad he's going to boycot Sony from now on, just like I've been doing for the past years.

Do I need to remind people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

I'm shocked and disappointed to see this many Sony supporters in this thread :nope:
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stephanie eastwood
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:44 am


geohotz hasnt accomplished anything except ps3 homebrew which amounts to jack squat, because nobody uses it



^


I haven't bought a sony product in a long time since PS2. I enjoyed it, but not really into the business of knowing what these companies are up to. I just assume their greedy corporate companies and I'm just a number to them.

Unless somehow I bought universal remote or something.
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Adam Baumgartner
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:44 pm

http://kotaku.com/#!179245/why-the-ps3-is-a-computer-sony-dodges-euro-tax-men.

Hehe, just double checked. It's different when an individual does it, that's why I was confused. One just never ceases to learn, eh? ^_^
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Javaun Thompson
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:58 pm

Erm...Geohotz didn't do any of that. He published the PS3's key. Some people can use it for piracy but others can use it to reenable OtherOS. A feature they had which was suddenly taken away. If you bought a car, and suddenly 7 months later, the manufacturer sends out technicians to forcibly disable cruise control on your car, wouldn't you be a little ticked off?

I know, I meant that if he (or anyone) would "hack" a PS3 to mess with something like that then that's not so bad, but GeoHotz didn't do something as harmless as that. Which was my point. If he had use his hacking skill for something personal and harmless (like cheating a single player game, or change the home menu) then fine whatever, it's his PS3. But the whole Jailbreak thing and stuff is getting pirated, not so harmless.

GamesRadar has been posting afew of stories on this guy and I've seen some videos of him, and this is a comment I read on one of the stories which i think is very true and funny:
There are some people out there that one can just hate for no reason - just one look at them and you know they're worthy of all the loathing you can muster. He is one of those people for me. I knew of him since the iPhone jailbreak and I hated him then, as well. Simply looking at him kind of boils my blood. He has that look that, to me, is like a nerd trying to be a badass. And his body language in his videos communicate "Hate me!". Literally, to me, this guy has the perfect trollface. I get mad every time I see him.


Here's the thing, When a person commits a "normal" crime, like armed robbery or grand theft, they usually just denied that they did it. When a person commits a "internet" crime, they'll admit they did it, but cry-out and state that they aren't doing anything wrong and they usually get a amount of supporters. Apparently at some point GeoHotz fled to South America and lied about not having a PSN account but at the same time claims he did nothing wrong :shakehead:

EDIT:
ugh, I'm so sick and tired of Sony acting like they are above the law. It's disgusting to see Sony use their size and financial power to attack brilliant people like Geohotz. I'm glad he's going to boycot Sony from now on, just like I've been doing for the past years.

Please, explain why you think Sony is acting as if they are above the law? I've heard this a few times from other internet source and it's never elaborated as to why they think such.
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Chelsea Head
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:07 pm

Here's the thing, When a person commits a "normal" crime, like armed robbery or grand theft, they usually just denied that they did it. When a person commits a "internet" crime, they'll admit they did it, but cry-out and state that they aren't doing anything wrong and they usually get a amount of supporters. Apparently at some point GeoHotz fled to South America and lied about not having a PSN account but at the same time claims he did nothing wrong :shakehead:

:rofl:

Fled to South America? Actually he went http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/2011/03/fearmongering.html
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Avril Churchill
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:48 pm

:rofl:

Fled to South America? Actually he went http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/2011/03/fearmongering.html

Like I said, Apparently. I figured it was something like that. But that still doesn't explain why he lied about having a PSN account
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matt white
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:40 am

Please, explain why you think Sony is acting as if they are above the law? I've heard this a few times from other internet source and it's never elaborated as to why they think such.

I think you should read http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/2011/04/new-topic.html

I'll quote the last two paragraphs in that blog post:

And some of Sony's words just really unsettle me. "You don't have an ownership right in the software that Sony Computer allows you to use. That's the whole point of the license agreement, it's not an ownership interest, it is a privilege that Sony conveys on them." Should I feel privileged to give you $300? If you take the privilege back, what can I do with my uncontested ownership physical PS3? If I stop using your software and install my own, you'll sue me.




But most troubling of all is what Sony is doing to the people who have stepped up to represent the class. Sony has attempted to demand inspection, and by inspection they mean full copies, of not only the representatives PS3s but of their home personal computers. To any reasonable person, it's clear Sony doesn't expect to find "evidence" there, it's just simply to harass the representatives. And the harassment worked on one, he pulled out of the suit citing privacy reasons. Know what Sony did? They tried to demand inspection of his things anyway. You get the message? Basically if Sony does bad things, you better not call them out, or they'll attempt to make your life hell.

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Kieren Thomson
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:04 pm

"You don't have an ownership right in the software that Sony Computer allows you to use. That's the whole point of the license agreement, it's not an ownership interest, it is a privilege that Sony conveys on them."


They actually said that?

Well its not surprising but at the same time its still creepy to hear that authority they have over an item that you bought from them.

Makes me want to go back and read all those agreements I accepted.....
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NO suckers In Here
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:16 am

They actually said that?

Well its not surprising but at the same time its still creepy to hear that authority they have over an item that you bought from them.

Makes me want to go back and read all those agreements I accepted.....

You know, I think it should work both ways. When I'm done with the game or console, I should be able to "give" it back to Sony and get my money - all of it - back.
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Claudia Cook
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:53 pm

In my humble opinion I think GeoHotz did nothing wrong.
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Facebook me
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:38 am

I must say I dont completely agree with Sony with this. They went after people's IP addresses that even attempted to watch his videos on it. And for the most part I am all for an open and free internet where anyone can watch/read anything they want. I dont really see George Hotz doing anything wrong here. He gained root access to his PS3.......gaining root access on a phone has been proven to be legal by the DMCA, I dont see a huge problem.
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Jack Bryan
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:46 pm

I must say I dont completely agree with Sony with this. They went after people's IP addresses that even attempted to watch his videos on it. And for the most part I am all for an open an free internet where anyone can watch/read anything they want.

As am I.
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Sophh
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:19 pm

ok
First of all: You answered your own question "I don't know if what he did was technically illegal or not, but who cares?"...come on now, you called him the modern day Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor....from what I understand stealing is quite illegal, regardless.
2nd: yes....all companies need to make money, but most people don't get into the video game industry without knowing about what makes video games good and fun, if games aren't fun then the games aren't bought, therefor the company makes no money.
3rd: How are developers still making profit it the game isn't being bought?
4th: Right, law are nothing, let just live in a place with absolutely no rules (aka laws) to prevent anyone from killing anyone without consequences. Let me ask you something, if someone broke into a store in stole something that would be illegal and no-one in a sane mind would debate that. Now lets say it's your house that was broken into and stuff was stole from you, against not debatable, even if he didn't technical "Break-in" but instead found the key under your door mat, that's still illegal So why is it debatable that this is not? He is allowing people to steal. Only it's a sequence of break-ins branching out to multiple victims. Doing so over the internet dose make it any less illegal, it just makes people stupid for thinking it is.

The GeoHotz supporters make no sense, so he found a loophole in Sony's ToS so he played by the rules and shouldn't get in trouble, but even if he didn't who cares he should be allowed to do it? :facepalm:
Hacking a console and messing with it for personal use, like maybe changing the menu or cheating on single player games isn't too bad, but when it involves online and stealing, THEN it's a problem with is what happen.



You are writing about laws and morality in what appears to be a very black-white manner.
As to your larger point about legality - what is legal is not necessarily what is good, and what is good is not necessarily what is legal. There are many laws I could quote that were on the books fifty years ago but were found to be wrong or changed along with society. The question of what is good and what is bad should not merely stop at what is lawful and what is unlawful - that simply stifles the debate about how society (and its laws) may change over time and in what direction the society wishes to take.

@Reneer
Kudos, you took the words right out of my mouth. But im still gonna add a bit more to add.

@Death_Bat
1. lol talk about contradictions. How is he doing something illegal if like you said he actually found a loophole.
2. When i said 'stealing' I used the term broadly. My bad. Should have been more careful. I will explain myself. By saying stealing i was referring to enabling piracy, but piracy in itself is not *stealing* per se. Stealing entails taking away from you what is rightfully your property. Piracy entails *copying* your possession rather than taking it. I know some of you will say people are entitled to the money taken away though piracy. Guess what? In this life we aint entitled to anything. All we can do is fight to keep and claim, which is what Sony is doing. Survival of the fittest.
3. Like Reneer said, your conception of right or wrong is way too based on the legal system. Morality is not defined by the law. Rather the law TRIES to be moral. And in my opinion fails miserably at it.
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Emerald Dreams
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:56 am

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/01/norways-consumer-council-files-complaint-against-sonys-ps3-downgrades.ars

Norway: Sony's PS3 "updates" actually downgrade system
Norway's Consumer Council, an independent government agency, has received multiple complaints from PlayStation 3 owners over the removal of the "Other OS" functionality of the console. It has now taken the complaint to Norway's Consumer Ombudsman, with the Council claiming that Sony breached the Norwegian Marketing Control Act by removing a key feature after sale.

"Sony claims a universal right to change or remove functionality from the gaming console," ?yvind H. Kaldestad of the Consumer Council told Ars. "The Consumer Council strongly believes there needs to be a limit to what constitutes a reasonable change to products we buy—and that terms of service that grant the manufacturer full access to literally downgrade the product or limit the functionality are unreasonable and in clear violation of the Marketing Control Act."

There's also the issue of Sony's wording. "When a company use terms like 'updates' or 'upgrades,' it is reasonable to expect a significant improvement of the product and not the risk of being stuck with a lesser product," said the Council's Thomas Nortvedt in a statement.

The Consumer Ombudsman can reach out to the parties involved in disputes and negotiate a voluntary compromise, but somehow we doubt Sony is going to shrug and replace the Other OS functions of the PlayStation 3... although with the system now opened completely by hackers, there's little good reason not to do so. If no voluntary arrangement can be reached, the issue can be taken to the Market Council, a legal entity with the power to "issue decisions banning unlawful marketing and contract terms and conditions in standard contracts when deemed necessary in the interests of consumers."

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Laurenn Doylee
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:31 pm

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/01/norways-consumer-council-files-complaint-against-sonys-ps3-downgrades.ars

Sony is digging the hole deeper and deeper.
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Kat Stewart
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:08 pm

Sony is digging the hole deeper and deeper.

PS3. It does everything.

Except play PS2 games.

Or run other OS's.

:( I like the PS3, I want to buy one. But it is rather irksome how Sony keeps meddling with its functionality. They also have a really bad attitude and totally seem to over-react -- like with the whole harassing GeoHotz supporters and demanding IP addresses and generally issuing statements where they thumb their noses at their consumer base. I mean, MS gives you a console that RRoDs for years, but at least they pretended like they sort of cared.
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james tait
 
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Post » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:42 am

PS3. It does everything.

Except play PS2 games.

Or run other OS's.

:( I like the PS3, I want to buy one. But it is rather irksome how Sony keeps meddling with its functionality. They also have a really bad attitude and totally seem to over-react -- like with the whole harassing GeoHotz supporters and demanding IP addresses and generally issuing statements where they thumb their noses at their consumer base. I mean, MS gives you a console that RRoDs for years, but at least they pretended like they sort of cared.

I feel the exact same way, I think it's a great machine, but I'm no longer sure how I feel about Sony.
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Alkira rose Nankivell
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:15 pm

So, I must be the only one confused here. Who the hell is "GeoHotz" and why is the whole forums divided over this issue?
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Tyrel
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:03 pm

What are you talking about? GeoHotz didn't win. I'm surprised he didn't go to jail.
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Jessie
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:06 pm

Guess this motivates Sony to make a better hack-proof system next time.

Hack...proof? No such thing. Sony's (and most big business's) version of "hack proof" basically amounts to adding more layers of obfuscation, encryption, registration, etc. that will do nothing but slow hackers down a bit and inconvenience legitimate users. IMO the only fair way to combat hackers is to build better detection systems to find and suspend/ban users or hardware. Locking systems down in ways that inconvenience legit users or push people out of their privacy/usability comfort zone only encourages more hacking.

I feel the exact same way, I think it's a great machine, but I'm no longer sure how I feel about Sony.

I'm typically very much against company loyalty and hatred since I see corporations as multifaceted entities that can't really be judged on an experience-by-experience or product-by-product basis. However, Sony has a long and storied history of anti-consumer behavior across more than a few different product platforms. I do not trust them at all. I had no idea they were so bad until I had three different computers that ended up with a rootkit (a very nasty and usually fairly invisible OS hack) that caused the CD-ROM drives to malfunction. It was installed by audio CDs published by Sony as a undisclosed copy protection measure. VERY bad stuff.
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Nice one
 
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Post » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:44 am

What are you talking about? GeoHotz didn't win. I'm surprised he didn't go to jail.


For what? He didn't do anything illegal. He did something Sony didn't like and Sony decided to throw a tantrum, that's all there is to it. Sure Hotz acts like a dink, but Sony is showing itself to be the dink master in this case.
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Da Missz
 
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