I must agree with you.

Redeye and Pysmon - I use the wrye flash now and its funny, I have removed most conflicts by tagging certain mods (trial and error) and can play without masterupdate without crashing ingame or exit...when I get my final mod list together, I probably will masterupdate it all. So my point may be that wrye flash might be the only way to go with 100 or more mods loaded....

However, I see you both use a couple of mods I know nothing about and are these stable mods to add (dont want to highjack thread but we are talking about stability):

Princess Better Prompts v1pt1.esp

Treasure Maps_Underground.esp
Treasure Maps_Secrets of the Wasteland.esp
Treasure Maps_Bobblehead Edition.esp
Treasure Maps_A Fist Full of Caps.esp

Destruction - Main.esp
Destruction - Main - Statics.esp
Destruction - DLC.esp
Destruction - DLC - Statics.esp

FalloutFood.esp
FalloutFoods - FWE Master Release.esp

And a few others I cant find by searching:

URWL.esp
WRWC - Classic Fallout.esp
ntfs.esp
tubrrcompound.esp

Oh and regarding ICMN,
"ICMN is the best realism mod I've played. Better than FWE integrated mods"
Do you turn off RI in FWE to use ICMN?

Well, I suppose I will grab this first chunk since it looks like most of those come from my listing


Personally, I love this mod, and I have had no issues with it in my game whatsoever as of yet (though I will be fair, I have not gotten to the point of fully completing the game with it in, so there COULD be problems later on, but nothing I can see in there makes me suspect I will have issue). It will obviously have potential conflicts with other mods that would adjust player dialogue options, but if you just load it early then there should be no real problems. Also, the changes in this are very minor, but they are very welcomed, IMO.


These have been as stable as can be for me, and a certainly an interesting addition to the gameworld. If you do ever get conflicts with these, at worst it would be not having access to one of the maps or one of the treasure spots due to something being placed over them or whatnot. You won't be getting stability issues with them though, that is for sure.


I just recently added the Destruction mod into my load list, and I expect it conflicts with tons of stuff I am using, but I just load it extremely early so that everything else can just override the changes it makes in cases it is needed as this is really just an aesthetic mod to add a little more immersion. I also haven't seen any real noticeable stability or performance issues since I have been using it.


This combo has worked flawlessly for me so far, the only thing is that if you use MMM, there is no patch for it to go with this, so you will get some minor inconsistencies (but these could be quickly fixed by making a little patch with FO3Edit).


These are Ultra Realistic Wasteland Lighting (which appears to be removed from download on the Nexus) and http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2121, respectively, and both of them have again worked without issue for me what-so-ever. I recently dropped URWL myself (which I may be regretting as I don't think I have a backup) to take a try at Realistic Interior Lighting since I run Dynamic Weather which renders a lot of what URWL is designed for moot.

Not sure about the other ones you mentioned though.

Redeye - I think its great when you share your load order when you have a stable load order - you can learn alot. I think when I eventually feel I get the mods I want loaded and mostly CTD free, I may post my load order too. I also am keeping a list for my alter ego when I come back and play fallout 3 one last time as an evil character....just bought a discounted FONV so I will probably play vanilla NV after my heavily modded FO3 play through. I see some mods in your load order that I think overhaul the slave mechanics in the game. See I cant wait to play fallout 3 again in 6 months cause I cant wait to blow up Megaton.

Just rambling but I love these PC games - Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout3 and am sure Fallout NV and soon Skyrim. I play the vanilla first then I come back and play a heavily modded good guy and finally a heavily modded bad guy. I get 3 playthroughs with almost entirely different games each time....huge value for the $. The only other PC games that I like lately are dragon age and mass effect but they just dont offer the modding variables that the big 5 above offer. Thank you for your response.

No worries, and I agree that folks posting up stable loads can really help people trying to figure out what they might want to run with, more so when they have large loads that they have gotten stable.

I actually just cleaned up my install today and reloaded all my mods in from scratch, dropping a few things I decided I no longer wanted/needed after having had a good taste of them in game as well as tossing in some new content and reverting to a few of me "golden oldies" in a couple instances. I also refined my mod cleaning process to correct a few misconceptions I previously had from poor assumptions on my part, so I anticipate that this will only make things even more smooth (and thus lead to a stable LO with what I have in - though I do still need to get around to moving over to BASH and getting that system down so I can achieve true control over my LO). Once I have played enough to confirm it is still stable I will no doubt toss my LO back out for folks to take a peek at.

Also, you are in fact correct regarding mods touching on the slave system. The goal I usually try to accomplish with my LO (if I can get it stable with this in mind), is to load a combination of mods that would be good across many different play styles (so I don't have to keep adding and pulling things as I change up to new characters and such). Haven't gotten to play with the Slavery system yet myself too much (since my current character is a good guy), but it has some very high reviews for it so I am willing to give it a go.


Oh, no worries on the brief rambling, I too am a big fan of Bethesda games and treat them in a similar manner to you (playing vanilla through once - at least the base game, not always the DLCs for them though), and then I come and mod it out on the PC. I usually shoot for making the game more re-playable if I can as well when I toss in mods, mainly looking for realism/immersion/interaction in regards to the game world. I do think Bethesda has its weak points, in all fairness (personally, I think they could stand to get better writers working for them), but they still produce what are probably my favorite games on the market.

Just thought that I should post up my Load Order which has been stable for a day or two now. But I want to keep testing just a little while longer- I don`t want to mislead anyone.

Please do, this is the way I find 90% of new mods I try out these days.

To Chakka above-

You can turn off FWE immersion stuff in the FWE options menu or if you load Imps mod it will do it for you and override - it is designed to do that.

I tried several versions of Destruction that caused massive chaos to my load order and near constant issues with each update when trying to use it with a merged patch. Then when Valda put out Flash and he worked on special integration and tags just for that mod and it has not given me any grief since.

I've tried MasterUpdate a few times - but my experience with Oblivion and talking to my modding gurus showed me what what it was - a hack to work around a problem that has already been solved (official patch 5). I've not found it resolved any crashes and is unwieldy to manage. Bashed patching is the way to go and gosh it really is too bad that it was late in the F3 scene and that it was met with such resistance.

My load order on post 28.

Psymon - I wondered what those destruction tags were for because I didnt remember them in oblivion.

I got one more for you:

xcalibruniverse_fwe_fps.esp

I was trying to craft some ammo and I didnt see any options....looked at this mod and for whatever reason, all of the ammo crafting in the esp is deleted. I dont know if the WMK patch fixes this (didnt know it even existed), but wholly cow why did they do that? Take a look in FO3edit and see for yourself.

Yeah it was the best fit last I checked.

I can craft ammo - just not for xCaliber weapons. That is what the shop is for.

A truly integrated weapon system would have ironsight, FWE damage, and WMK compatibility with each weapon from each mod. As it is now for me - I get bits from each. Not perfect but then no concerted effort by folks to try.

I like WMK over ironsights that is why the FWE ironsight overhaul not that big a deal for me. Would rather have mods to weapons than be able to point down barrel.

So even these patches don't cover all options.

But hey it is the wasteland.

Pysmon and Redeye - a new twist to CTDs.

I actually followed the directions to cleaning mods in detail using FO3edit and one of the last things it states to do after deleting copies of masters, undeleting references is hitting the "check for errors" option. What I have found in the older mods is that they end up with reference errors. Hmmm. I went into FO.esm and looked around and have found many reference errors off by 1 or 2 digits. I think gamesas maybe changed reference IDs from older versions to newer versions of Fallout3...and it must be following some naming and reference ID structure.

I don't know if this is a cause of CTDs, but I wonder if the game is mathematically calculating a referenced ID and cannot find it and then hits a wall and CTDs. Anyone know the answer?

I'll have to look into this a little more myself here, but that sounds like it certainly could be the cause of some CTD issues experienced, as I would imagine the engine would not react well to calling for a ref that wasn't there.

Of course, Psymon many have more on this, I don't consider myself nearly as versed in the area of cleaning things up, but I will certainly do some poking around here and report back with any findings I may come up with.

Actually you dont need to filter anything first - just click on the "check for errors" tab and it will list out the undefined unresolved errors in a mod. I would have to think that it may cause instability in the game if not fixed..

Best to have detailed reports and ask the mod authors.

Easy to say - I know considering there are far fewer modders around for this game, but I bet if you do find instances and the authors can confirm then all the better.

Also I avoided adding lots of mods after patch 5 came out - I then learned that official patches for Oblivion also voided some mods way back. I try to only add mods that were made/remade after patch 6 onward.

Not making this mistake with NV - especially since I don't even have it yet. Damn clouding.

Interesting. I am beginning to see and agree with your statement about avoiding older mods. Now that I can use FO3edit to tell me which ones have resource/reference ID errors and how old the mod is, I will probably follow your lead and uninstall the mod. Yes and I will also inform the author in their thread on Nexus with a mod that I really want....one thing I have noticed is that other modders pick up old mods and make updates (usually with permission from the original author) so I have found myself searching Nexus and surprisingly have found updated mods which I use (like some FWE conversions too)....