I Can from time to time get some random crashing. Could be anywere in the game and is never the same place. Could it be that the game just crashes from time to time when modded? or is it something to do with my load order or conflicts? I dont actually know how to do a spoiler guys so i do apolgise.





[X] Fallout3.esm
[X] Anchorage.esm
[X] ThePitt.esm
[X] BrokenSteel.esm
[X] PointLookout.esm
[X] Zeta.esm
[X] CRAFT.esm
[X] CALIBR.esm
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Alternate Travel.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm
[X] Project Beauty.esm
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
[X] EVE.esm
[X] 20th Century Weapons.esm
[X] StreetLights.esm
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather.esm
[X] Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm
[X] StreetLights - Wasteland.esp
[X] DarNifiedUIF3.esp
[X] DUIF3Extras.esp
[X] Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp
[X] Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers (automatics only).esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty.esp
[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty (Followers Enhanced).esp
[X] WeaponModKits.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp
[X] WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp
[X] EVE.esp
[X] EVE Operation Anchorage.esp
[X] EVE - FWE Master Release.esp
[X] EVE - FWE Master Release (Follower Enhanced).esp
[X] EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp
[X] EVE - FWE with WeaponModKits.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release + Project Beauty.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Master Menu Module.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release + DLCs.esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Main.esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Anchorage.esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - The Pitt.esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Broken Steel.esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Point Lookout.esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Anchorage (NEE).esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Dynamic Sneak Bonus.esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Green Tint Remover.esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Sandstorm.esp
[X] Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Sandstorms Damage Armor.esp
[X] Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow in Fallout.esp
[X] Enhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.esp
[X] Enhanced Weather - Sneak Bonus during Storms.esp
[X] Enhanced Weather - REBOOT.esp
[X] FWE Ammo Rarity for 20th Century.esp
[X] FWE Realistic Ammo Weight inc 20th Cent.esp
[X] FWE Realistic Ammo Weight in Names inc. 20th Cent.esp
[X] FWE-20thCent Ammo Weight in Names.esp
[X] FWE Ammo Weight for 20th Century.esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Brotherhood_Outcast).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Chinese Ghoul).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Containers).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (NPC_Settler).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Raider).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (RivetCity).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Slaver).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (SuperMutant).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Talon_Regulator).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (TEST Container).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Vault 101).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Vendor).esp
[X] Realistic Interior Lighting.esp
[X] Realistic Interior Lighting - BS.esp
[X] Realistic Interior Lighting - OA.esp
[X] Realistic Interior Lighting - PL.esp
[X] Ex Libris - PreWar Book Titles.esp
[X] RaiderMercenaryExpanded.esp
[X] MercenaryExpanded[M&W].esp
[X] RaiderExpanded[M&W].esp
[X] RaiderMercenaryExpanded[M&W].esp
[X] 1PipboyPDA.esp
[X] Merge Patch.esp

You can do the spoiler like this:

[spoiler]Text You Want[/spoiler]

As for your actual LO, I see one immediate issue that I highlighted in red below and put a note with, and then replaced it in green (with another small note). Further, I have noted some other things in yellow with notes that need to be corrected:



I would suggest checking out BOSS and running your load order through that - make sure you have the most recent edition of it with the latest masterlist. That should help your LO considerably, and may get the CTD issues reduced for you. If not, well, crashing is part of FO at times.

OK thank you for that. I dont understand how to use BOSS though. Some more learning is in order. And the alternate travel is in black and always finds its self with the ESM's

It really couldn't be simpler - if you get the installer for the latest version it will automatically update the masterlist for you after the install, and then you just run it and it reorders your mods based off the rules listed in the masterlist that have been compiled by the community and are being actively updated all the time. While BOSS won't make your game work perfectly regardless of the content you put in, it will certainly help you out in regards to getting things installed in the least intrusive and most conflict free manner possible.

None of these are compatible with FWE and if they were, you'd only need one of them instead of all four files.

I'm not sure if it's still the case, but FWE Alt travel was marked as an esm when I last downloaded it. You can change it with FO3Edit.

I'm also not sure how well Dynamic Weather plays with the enhanced weather esps. I would try getting rid of them. (But make sure you keep Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm, you need it for dynamic rain.)

I think you only need one of the FWE - Restore tracer mods as well.

Finally I would move all your weather ESPs to the bottom of your load order, just above your merged patch.

Ok guys thanks for the input. I will give all of these a bash soon. @ watt you can use both weather mods. I was told to download rain and snow for enhanced. Also have do i edit the esp with FO3EDIT?

Edit

I did the above advice. I use BOSS and deleted mods that were not needed. I am however still getting random crashes. I just had 1 after i did the above.

Some helpful stuff there. My list is almost identical to the OPs. I don`t understand why I don`t need MMM Menu or the sneak for storms, but I`ll follow the rule. I even saw some of my ESPS placed before ESM by FOMM.

Myself, I`ve not had probs with enhanced and dynamic weather together so far. I tried getting rid of one once and the game just CTD every time on start so left both in.

Thanks.

By the way, dmxdex2020, you may want to go into an interior place before making your changes and saving a couple of times before going out. I often find that if I made a few datafile changes outside and run about immediately- instant crash. But if you go inside a building, make changes, rest for about 24 hours minimum (4 days is usually better), then the game doesn`t crash instantly when you go out and you can test.

Just what I do anyway...

With FWE - I believe its in-game menus take the place of or the need for that MMM menu plugin.

Why have two esp that introduce rain? You want twice the rain. Dynamic requires the Enhanced Rain.esm and distinctly states ... in the readme ... not to use the enhanced esp. But do use the Dynamic rain esp. So again only the esm from enhanced is required for Dynamic. I use the sneak esp for storms - no problems here.

With FWE cell respawns take 9 in-game days. I was told explicitly that both speeding up the time or reducing the cell respawn timer was not good enough. To go in an isolated cell to wait 9 days. This clears and resets a lot of things (not just lists). I found that when upgrading Dynamic this last time I had to do a clean save with cell respawn to get rid of issues.

... now I must return to my clouds - my throne awaits. :dance:

Gday

A little off topic
But why is it advise to not use the MMM menu esp please ?

Had a feeling I`d be hearing from you. But I`ll make you happy and respond. Beware though that I will NOT get into one-upmanship arguments which I consider childish and crass.

I shall have a look at my weather stuff and reconsider... Although, you`ll note when I tried to remove one before, my game kept crashing so I left it in (for some reason you ignored that part). And sure, 9 days is indeed best with FWE, but for simple tests I find 24 hours or a couple of days works fine for me. I only go the whole 9 days if making major changes.

The reason for not using the MMM Menu esp is because the OP is using FWE as well, and the FOIP patch negates this (I think that is how that works...maybe it is just the current MMM does not need that plugin file anymore). It is clearly stated in the documentation, though (again, if I remember correctly).

As for not using the Enhanced Weather Sneak mod, it is because the OP is using the Dynamic Weather Sneak mod - these do not work together and Xepha has clearly stated this in his documentation as well (I believe).

So, the reason to not use them, is the mod authors have told you not to do so as they do not play nice with some other mods in certain LO (I think...too lazy to actually go and look right now, need to get to bed, and I am multitasking a few things before doing so).


FOMM had nothing to do with this - the files are ordered by the files modified date (this is just how the Bethesda games do it). Tools like BOSS auto adjust such things on all the mods to get everything into the proper orders they need to be in. If I am somehow mistaken on this and things have changed, I am sure someone will correct me soon enough.


Again, Xepha has mentioned in documentation that some of the Enhanced Weather plugins should work fine with Dynamic Weather, but they need to load before Dynamic Weather plugins in the LO. I am pretty sure the Interior Weather Sounds and the Rainbows plugins for Enhanced work fine - I think the Radioactive Rain one does too. I think overall the sentiment is Xepha simply doesn't support it.

Overall, Psymon's point in many topics recently has been that with enough effort, patience, and close attention one can get just about any mod into their LO without issue (or simply cut out because they can be verified as being unnecessary through some careful deduction and comparison to other plugins one is putting into their LO) - but it isn't just a toss it in and go type process. Hopefully I haven't been too presumptuous with this assessment of the on-goings in these help threads the past few days, but that is just what I have gathered (I just think a lot of people have been taking this in the wrong way or as a personal slate against them - again, not trying to be presumptuous, even though I really am).

Anyways, hope the information is useful for those who need it - a stable game for all is what I would like to see

Red Eye - I think ya get me.

Actually you're spot on with a lot of this.

It has nothing to do with personal digs at people or attacks to state that FWE respawn is 9 days. It is a technical specification. Individual findings and subjective experiences got nuthin to do with it - it takes 9 in-game days to respawn all the cells and containers. Period. That is minimal amount required for it to be thorough. The Dynamic Weather readme says to use the Enhanced Weather.esm.

These aren't things that have to do with fancy or desires (or fancy desires). This is computing ... garbage in gets garbage out. I, myself, have a great fancy for fantasy, subjective desires, and the unreal - but I know that computers care not for them. I'm also quite comfortable with objective reality.

Now all this personal crap on top of the rest is just ridiculous. This is a moderated forum - if you want to attack people go to craigslist or something. I'm not saying that anyone has to agree with me or call them a name if they don't. All this bash hating from the last thread was pointless. It is a proven tool and most modders with experience are hard pressed to admit isn't the best answer. It is the answer to many many problems. Anyone who successfully mods their game I call a modder. Anyone who makes mods I call a mod maker. Because (an here is the point) these mods for these games are not plug and play. This is why I prefer bash over mod managers - because the mod managers promote this false idea of plug and play. Wrye Bash and BAIN promote learning how the game works and what is happening under the hood. This makes a person a modder not a mod user.

Not being able to get it working and then coming around to say 'well I know 9 days is technically correct but I find no issue with 24 hours - ohh and I still have crashes' may be indicative of why bash isn't working for a person. With computing things must be just so. The game demands it <- this means the programs demand it. So clean save from Enhanced and Dynamic Weather - wait 9 days - install only the EW.esm and then Dynamic Rain - should stop the ctds without EW.esps.

Was the sentence above this snide? Yeah, but I'm not calling anyone a sycophant or some other such name just because the instructions are too difficult. (oops I did it again)

I have no hard feelings with anyone on this or any other forum - I said it before and I'll say it again - if Shield Watcher or anyone wants help getting bash up and running of any other kind - if I'm able I will help. But if I get insults then yeah expect snide remarks, but little else. or just being ignored.

So keep respect in front and I will too. No hard feelings (seriously).

be of service - pay it forward - peace love and chicken grease - all that.

Here's what my readme says:


Emphasis mine, though most of those ESPs didn't come with the latest version of MMM.

This does remind me, and maybe I will just have to pick your brain on it when I get ready to move forward with things, but I really need to learn BASH myself. I used MASH back in the day on Morrowind (now modding that game was REALLY not plug and play, and honestly, FO3 pretty much is in comparison - technically I still have never gotten my MW build EXACTLY how I want it...I will have to go back to that again sometime) while I was still active over there, and was just intimidated by the fact that the BASH versions in Oblivion and FO3 are certainly more advanced than the Morrowind version got to (and as such, in the end I took the easy-with-more-work-overall way out and went with FOMM).

Don't get me wrong, FOMM has been great, albeit a little weak in some of its abilities - I really only use it to launch FOSE (which isn't needed anyways), adjust some of the Game Settings available to edit in FOMM (again not needed), and to hand move my ESP Files (and, again not needed). I decided quick that I needed to learn BASH and FO3Edit, but I jumped at Edit first since I felt more at home with it up front for some reason. My main reason for wanting to get over to BASH though is the Bashed Patch itself - I love the idea of stripping out smaller mods by just loading them into the patch, among other aspects of it (I know my currently used Merged Patch can't stack up, no matter how stable I think my game is at the moment, and no matter how much content I think I am getting from my mod list...I know stuff is missing, has to be - my list is too long not to).

Either way, I guess my point it I might be bugging you about some BASH info coming up here in the future.


Ha! That is what I was talking about - I didn't think I was crazy, thanks for taking the time to find it in the documentation since I was too lazy to do it.

Cheers for the MMM menu clarification query.
From what was written
1. Don't use the MMM menu esp if using FWE
2. use if just using MMM by itself

I was starting to get an impression that the menu function had problems in the newish MMM RC61


I will get back in my box now


Cheers

Bleh, my confusion with the weather mod. Didn't realise you weren't using dynamic rain. ><

To edit Alt travel, first make a backup of the file. Launch FO3Edit and make sure that Alt travel is selected. Once FO3Edit's finished loading, expand Alt travel and click on "File Header" in the list on the left. In the list on the right find "Record Flags". Right click next to that, where is says ESM, and choose edit. (Yes, you're sure.) Deselect ESM. Exit, choosing to save.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5350/fo3edithelp.jpg

Thanks for the info. Appreciated.

Hmm... does the FWE menu actually detect MMM under "Supported Mod Configs" for any of you?

I'm using FWE 6.03 and MMM RC 6.2, which AFAIK are the latest releases... but the FWE menu does not detect MMM for me.

@ Red Eye: You said this in post 134 of the MMM thread:

"MMM is no longer part of the FWE menu and simply has its own menu under the Apparel list. It is intentional, though I don't remember the reason for it."

Have you found new info re this?

Load order:

Okay, spent some more time looking into this, though I don't have exacts for all of what I am about to cover (cause I was too lazy to keep looking that long after my memory was refreshed digging through some older posts):

First and foremost, no, the MMM Menu should not be showing up under the Supported Mods Config portion of FWE. This has direct relation to what I am about to address with the Menu Module ESP (in somewhat of an address to the post quoted from WraithGTO above your own quote here).

The MMM Menu Module is no longer to be used with MMM (As of RC6.1 - possibly as of a RC before this as well, but certainly by this one). The reason for this is that Mart has simply made the Menu a part of the base mod, and thus it appears under the Apparel section of the Items Menu in the Pip-Boy. This is also the same reason why it is not listed under the FWE Supported Mods Config Menu, as Mart had made the conscience decision to include the menu as a base part of the mod that would stand on its own (for the purpose of allowing the mod to be easily customizable much like FWE itself right out of the box). I can not point to the exact post where this was actually expressed, though I do recall it being expressed directly here on the forums, but you can even http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1119869-relz-marts-mutant-mod-10-rc-61/page__view__findpost__p__16463447 to see that the Menu Module is not even listed in the Optional Plugins section, and http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1119869-relz-marts-mutant-mod-10-rc-61/page__view__findpost__p__16463445 it is mentioned in the New and Updated Features section that the menu is now in the Apparel section and just included in the mod as of the RC6.1 release (I actually feel a little silly that all this time I couldn't remember the information was sitting in the OP - and further, the rest of you should be ashamed for not having read it in the first place ).

As such, if you still have the Menu Module, it is either an artifact from a past install of the mod, or you have not actually updated to the latest version of the mod yet.

So, in the end, the answer is, no matter what the situation is, don't use the Menu Module plugin - get the most recent version (which is actually http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1119869-relz-marts-mutant-mod-10-rc-61/page__view__findpost__p__16677278, and it requires you have the RC6.1 already installed as it is just a patch update that will override some of the included files).

Red Eye good research - man I take for granted having gotten these when first released.

And if ever you need help with bash just ask - if I don't see a thread or post just drop me a PM.

Thanks - and I know just how you feel (even if I have been quite around the FO scene until everyone decided to move on to NV...I kind of like being a game behind most of the time), I knew full well I had seen that information flat out in a post by Mart - and that's cause I read the release thread when it came out :whistling: :facepalm:

Anyhow, I am off to continue working on my house version of the Fallout PnP that I have been running for my friends, got a session coming this weekend and gonna have a lot of revisions to finish up before game time

Gday

Cheers for the research you did, very much appreciated .

I am running MMMRC6.1 + MMM6.2 patch with the menu esp selected (No FWE installed)
This is a fresh install a month ago. i haven't come across any major issues yet.

I set my load order going off the recommended order in post one of the MMM thread
which has the menu esp positioned last in the list. I just rechecked the downloaded MMMRC 6.1 archive i have here and it contains the menu esp.
So i assumed the menu esp was needed to have the the menu function appear in the apparel section of the pipboy

Just now looking at post 2 there seems to be no mention of the menu esp on the install part . and from what you have researched too.
I have probably assumed wrong

What i might do is disable the menu esp and make a new merged patch and see what happens


Sorry for the thread hijack

No thanks needed, I am glad to help out after all the help this community has offered me in my time learning how to get stable builds and find out what is needed to run different mods.


I wouldn't expect it to cause much issue, really, at most you may be missing adjustments made to the menu due to it being reverted by the Menu Module, but I don't even know if that would be the case (haven't looked into the issue far enough to have any real details on it).


Hmm, interesting, just went back and reread the post, and Mart does indeed put the Module in the recommended LO listing in the same post that he mentions the Menu now being integrated in the New and Updated Features. I had considered re-downloading the pack again (as I have adjusted mine to only include the parts that I use at this point) to see if the Menu Module was still included, but it sounds like you confirmed my suspicions there. I can only assume this was an oversight on Mart's part considering the rest of the information available (and having it work wonders in my game without the module having ever been loaded).


Indeed, the total amount of information pointing to the module not being needed certain surpasses the information indicating its continued need. As such, I can only assume Mart did a C&P of old thread data and modified it to make his new Release Thread, and simply did not notice he had not adjusted that information to correctly reflect the state of the new version (thus making it essentially a minor oversight that could have potential issue linked to it). Your plan is probably a fair one, though I can't personally guarantee that doing as such won't have some issues with a game in progress (I am not an experienced Mod Maker, so I don't know what effects this could have relating to a Menu type item). Overall, I would say see if it works, and if not, go back to running with the Module for your current play through (since you yourself said you haven't noticed any major issues having it present).

Also, no worries on the thread jacking, I think "help" threads should be a little more all inclusive to try and consolidate them from taking up the entirety of the mods board, people can multitask in them and help multiple people, but think that is all I have on that for right now, so, back to the OP who has certainly been overlooked in the shuffle of the MMM Menu talk for the last little bit and gotten no response to their latest reply:


Okay, so it looks like you have your files in a much better order, so at this point I am going to have to ask what you specifically mean by "I am however still getting random crashes." How random is random exactly? Is there any kind of consistency to the crashing that you can see at all? Does it happen quickly or only after a bit of game play? Does the game feel stable mostly leading up to the crashes? Any additional information aside from your current LO in regards to the crashes will help considerably with the issues (simply because crashes can be caused by a myriad of issues, so it can be difficult to just guess why it may be happening for one person in particular with any particular LO).

EDIT: So much for working on my PnP session like I said I was going to - getting close to bed time now, but this with equally fulfilling as that would have been, so it works

Oh, you've got one of those too? Well, mine's a conversion to an existing system.

Is it online anywhere like the Elder Scrolls link in your sig is?