Get rid of magic projectiles in Skyrim?

Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:33 pm

If people who find talking and walking cats killing midgits who are naturally short and adept with bows common place and normal, and then they say that your idea is unrealistic, i think thats a good indication your idea may be slightly flawed.
That's some flawed logic. When did that person say that they thought those things are common place? This is a game made by people who determine what will be logical in that game. I think a magical ball traveling at whatever speed is a bit unrealistic because MAGIC ISN'T REAL. You don't hear me saying, "hey bethesda, magic isn't real it shouldn't be in the game because it's unrealistic".
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maya papps
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:29 am

exactly, crouching through the underbrush, waiting for that deer to show up, bow at the ready..i may have had everything scale to my level, but atleast at lvl 42, my charecter felt stronger against deer than he did at lvl 1!
That sounds extremely boring to me. This is a game and I want to have fun and be immersed when I play it. If hunting deer actually produced something useful in game like valuable items then I might have done it. It didn't in Oblivon, so I'd see a deer and shoot an arrow at it to scare it away.
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lucile
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:03 am

That sounds extremely boring to me. This is a game and I want to have fun and be immersed when I play it. If hunting deer actually produced something useful in game like valuable items then I might have done it. It didn't in Oblivon, so I'd see a deer and shoot an arrow at it to scare it away.

Yah you missed the deer bc you are bad at aiming you said that earlier... :P
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casey macmillan
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:33 pm

Yah you missed the deer bc you are bad at aiming you said that earlier... :P

I didn't say I missed it. In fact, to be specific, I 360 no-scoped that deer in the head. :wavey:
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GabiiE Liiziiouz
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:59 am

Yah npc pathing has to be improved obviously... but I really dont see how increasing projectile speed is going to make enemies harder to hit? How exactly would that make it hard mode? (You stated that we are easy mode types)


I figure no matter what they do for the AI, hitting the AI will be easy. Unless AIs have vastly improved in the last year and I did not notice it, we will all figure out how to shoot them with ease. The question is since it will be easy to hit at the end of the day, should it also be absurdly easy to avoid being hit. That is what makes the current system so easy. Once you figure out how to hit a target, mostly just back peddle and fire you are going to hit 90% of the time. Hey that is fine, melee hits most of the time as well. But due to the slow speeds it is absurdly easy to dodge ranged attacks as well. Knowing I am going to hit them and they will never hit me does not really offer much of a challenge. Making the speed of the projectiles fast enough that it is hard to dodge, puts us on closer to even footing and it will require more skill to win. I am not some invulnerable guy pelting the opposition with spells. I take the same hits I dish out, so I have to be more careful.
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Eileen Collinson
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:18 pm

I figure no matter what they do for the AI, hitting the AI will be easy. Unless AIs have vastly improved in the last year and I did not notice it, we will all figure out how to shoot them with ease. The question is since it will be easy to hit at the end of the day, should it also be absurdly easy to avoid being hit. That is what makes the current system so easy. Once you figure out how to hit a target, mostly just back peddle and fire you are going to hit 90% of the time. Hey that is fine, melee hits most of the time as well. But due to the slow speeds it is absurdly easy to dodge ranged attacks as well. Knowing I am going to hit them and they will never hit me does not really offer much of a challenge. Making the speed of the projectiles fast enough that it is hard to dodge, puts us on closer to even footing and it will require more skill to win. I am not some invulnerable guy pelting the opposition with spells. I take the same hits I dish out, so I have to be more careful.


You do know melee can dodge too right? They can even block if they are feeling lazy, you cant block a fireball, you only have dodge to rely on. Does that mean melee should be changed so you auto-hit everything within 10 feet?
Kinda sounds like, you know, dumbing the game down... :thumbsdown:

Weather or not its easy to do, you should be able to dodge projectiles in TES. If the AI is too stupid to trace shots then fix the AI rather than break the projectiles.
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Lance Vannortwick
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:30 am

You do know melee can dodge too right? They can even block if they are feeling lazy, you cant block a fireball, you only have dodge to rely on. Does that mean melee should be changed so you auto-hit everything within 10 feet?
Kinda sounds like, you know, dumbing the game down... :thumbsdown:

Weather or not its easy to do, you should be able to dodge projectiles in TES. If the AI is too stupid to trace shots then fix the AI rather than break the projectiles.


No making it absurdly easy to dodge dumbs the game down. And I appreciate that you like that set up. Making it more difficult to dodge does not make it dumbed down. I am not asking for it to be impossible to dodge, but more difficult. To quote me "Making the speed of the projectiles fast enough that it is hard to dodge, "(note not impossible) Maybe have to use a non ugly version of the acrobatic dodge to dodge with a good success rate, so you have to have skilled things up a bit. And while melee can both block and dodge it is harder to dodge since there is effectively less flight time. Ranged you get to see the same type of melee wind up but you have a heck of a lot more time to dodge. I'd like melee strikes to go faster as well, so people would have to rely upon the block skill more but that might be asking for too much. Heck just have the AI not almost constantly do power strikes and it would be harder to dodge.
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Alan Cutler
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:32 am

I hardly ever used magic projectiles in Oblivion. Being a console player (for the most part) it's very difficult to hit a moving target with a slow moving projectile. I think magic projectiles should be replaced with a sort of magic which is like a bullet(I know a bullet is a projectile). Or even just add an alternative that takes more magicka to use. When a bullet is shot over a short range it hits near instantly after it is shot. This spell would act similarly where you point at your target, cast, and it instantly hits your target. Of course the enemies will have the same ability, so avoiding an incoming magic attack will become impossible(Unless the AI has a percent possibility it will miss). I think this would make silence and resist magic more important. Overall, I think it would make the magic system more useful. Do you agree?

P.S. Before anyone starts with the anti-console talk. I have played through Oblivion on PC and the projectiles where relatively hard to use(to me, I don't play on the PC often). oh and bow & arrow is almost useless as well because of how many arrows it takes to kill an enemy. I would like crossbows which would act similar to the spell I mentioned above and are more powerful than a bow. If they're crossbows in skyrim which shoot bolts quickly(It would be to a bow like a sniper rifle is to a rifle in single shot mode)(powerful but shoots very slowly) I'd be very happy. I just want a ranged weapon/magic that can be effective as a primary weapon, but is still fun. I found it boring to just run backwards firing 10 times with a bow/magic missile to kill an enemy. I know making the projectile faster won't help with that. I don't know how they will fix the AI so the player can't just backpedal. Maybe, a warp spell or enemies will stun you with magic or blind you with dirt for a short time.

I haven't tried FPS with a controller is some time, but sounds like keyboard and mouse still has its advantages. Oblivion did have differing spells. Sure the flame and frost spells were kind of slow while casting on target, but didn't they have their own additional effects? Shock was fast enough to hit the target, frost seemed to slow the player's down slightly and blind the area slightly, but I'm not sure what fire's unique feature was (slightly incendiary?). I find the magics system quite useful. It took me a while, but I became proficient with it (although not with a controller). You could use area effect spells like a rocket launcher in a FPS. Don't aim directly for your opponent less they dodge your attacks easy, aim for the ground right beside them and let the collateral/ splash damage do the work. That's harder to dodge.

On PC, I played exclusively in first person view and eventually found it too easy. So I've tried playing an archer exclusively in third person view since then and find it quite fun. I agree on the fact that it took too many arrows to kill an enemy, but perhaps it's realistic? I'm sure the indigenous people of the Americas would have loved it if their arrows penetrated the Spanish Conquistador's armor better. Perhaps using locational damage could solve that somewhat (headshots), although perhaps make it more frustrating as well since it takes even more aim? Have you tried sneak attacks, poisoning your arrows, or using acrobatics to get to high out of the reach places (big rocks) to pump your opponent full of arrows?

The only other work around I can think of to make most people happy is an optional auto-aim setting in the game? The way GTA SA does it?
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Emily Shackleton
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:06 am

No making it absurdly easy to dodge dumbs the game down. And I appreciate that you like that set up. Making it more difficult to dodge does not make it dumbed down. I am not asking for it to be impossible to dodge, but more difficult. To quote me "Making the speed of the projectiles fast enough that it is hard to dodge, "(note not impossible) Maybe have to use a non ugly version of the acrobatic dodge to dodge with a good success rate, so you have to have skilled things up a bit. And while melee can both block and dodge it is harder to dodge since there is effectively less flight time. Ranged you get to see the same type of melee wind up but you have a heck of a lot more time to dodge. I'd like melee strikes to go faster as well, so people would have to rely upon the block skill more but that might be asking for too much. Heck just have the AI not almost constantly do power strikes and it would be harder to dodge.


Its just as easy to dodge melee attacks in oblivion, unless the enemy is coming at you with a dagger. Weapons have a significant delay, and only daggers had a fast attack speed. You only had to dance in and out of their swing arc to melee vs npc's without ever getting hit. Block was just for lazy mode combat or to increase your endurance.
Flight time of projectiles is based entirely on the distance you had, and in many dungeons there was not a huge deal of room to move, but with melee you only had to take two steps backward and then two steps forward and you completly avoided the melee attack AND manage to counter attack.

I simply disagree with the OP that projectiles should be "bullet speed instant".
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Jade MacSpade
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:27 pm

Which is why I think speed should be coupled to the casters skill. An AI should be able to react extremely fast to your actions since the computer is doing it, depending on his skill, level, and balancing issues naturally. I'm not talking instant, but maybe from todays 100% speed to 150-200% speed at maxed skill level? With some practice, you may even be able to gauge your opponents skill, long before he manages to land a hit. When AI throws a fireball at you, having dodge as a fighter is more useful, since normal move might be too slow to get you away. A magic user might have to rely on reflect. A stealth on sneak etc. So as the game progresses, avoiding things become harder, but you also have more things to counter them.

And no, I disagree. Block is extremely useful at higher levels due to the knockback.
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Lynette Wilson
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:36 am

Id like a constant stream instead of just a ball,it would be a lot cooler.Of course it would have to use more magika,but(call me a noob), I always had a little trouble getting magika(Im more of a stealth/bow player anyway).But back on topic,I never had troubles with it in oblivion,so Id be fine with how it is,(though a stream of lightning flowing from my hands would be nice :nod)
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tiffany Royal
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:31 am

Well no matter what they have to improve the hit chances of ranged magic and ranged weapons it was realy bad in ob. Id suggest limited self targetting of magic projectiles to home in on targets near them.

Frankly the realy lousy ranged targetting system is why id never buy an elder scrolls game on console.
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Lexy Dick
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:51 am

i would like to see the projectile spells to move faster and have some weight to them so they ark over a period of time. not nearly as much as arrows but a ark none the less. i would also like to more stylized AOE spells where when the area is selected via a ring that signifies the AOE range like in WOW. like having fire shoot up from the ground or a torrent of lightning descend from the sky. also cone affect spells where they have a max range within 5-25 feet of the character and a spread that cones outward from the character.
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Charlotte Buckley
 
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Post » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:55 am

I want slow, and fast (but not too fast-bulletlike) spells.

Best if you could change their speed when you make them.

good idea. that would cost extra gold (or do i call them septims? caps maybe?) and more magicka to create
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saharen beauty
 
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