yes that is what mad the BOS so epic and the enclave.

Yeah, it sure did the Enclave some real good didn't it? :glare:

Yeah, so they are isolationists, xenophobic and a bit of pricks in Fallout 1 and 2, and in Fallout 3 then help the sick and the poor, waging open war even though they mostly don't like to get involved and don't hesitate to recruit a wastelander, and this change is what the mainstream [censored] want more.

Bethesda coulda just made a faction called the Sisterhood of Technology for what I care, BoS and BoS don't even share the same ideology anymore.

This

They should have made the Steel Circle canon. You know the crazy crazy invisible Nightkin? Now imagine Brotherhood of Steel Paladins with advanced weaponry and stealth boys in power armor.

I think you all need to read what the terror of death dude said a lil more carefully. He didn't say the BoS represents what a fallout game should be, but what a fallout group should be.

And he is right. BoS is all about survival. Of course they would be paranoid, it is post apoc, they don't want the hard work of their founders to go to waste by getting wiped out. Who would trust anyone? You need to earn trust. Trust someone in post apoc, and next thing you know yer dead and someone picking their teeth after feasting on your remains.

The point being made in fo3 and fonv is that times have changed. Old doctrine may of worked before, but as others are gaining strength, one needs to adapt to survive.

Been wayyyy too long since I played fo1, but I did a replay of fo2 after fo3, and 90% pf the people you meet are lying, snobbish, tool wads who are out for themselves and don't trust anyone else.

So, BoS did what it had to do to ensure survival in the first 2 fo games, but as other factions rise to power, others step forward showing leadership skills, world changes and they will have to adapt or be destroyed. The same will happen with NCR, adapt, use diplomacy, or die. Probably the best leader in waiting in the game is Veronica, because she gets it. Depending on what they decide for canon, she will either become an elder in BoS and make them stronger, or she will prolly become a major leader for the Followers and turn them into a major player in the west.

If canon is she leaves, and BoS doesn't adapt, I'm pretty sure you can say goodbye to the westcoast brotherhood. The midwest and eastcoast have already made the changes to survive.

Veronica is by far my favorite companion and npc probably because of the leadership skills just waiting to come out and that she gets what wasteland survival is all about. If they ever return to the mojave, she is the only character I really want to see what transpired. Well, her and Primm Slim... hopefully tho she packs up with smart bos, joins followers, and moves eastward.

So yeah, I want BoS because it pieces together the story, just like I want to know what is going to happen with ncr, legion, followers, and the new groups which will be inevitable.

Who the heck is Victoria?

I think he means Veronica......

Yeah yeah. Was way too late writing that. Now I'm on 3 hours of sleep. I will take care of that.

As a huge BoS fan I would greatly dislike it if the Brotherhood wasn't in a Fallout game. They're as much of a series icon as Vaults and Super Mutants; Fallout without them would feel wrong.

I don't see why people would be bothered by the inclusion of the Brotherhood in New Vegas; it was perfectly possible to play the entire game without ever encountering them if you so wished.

Because factions like BoS and Enclave should die off soon, it's in the nature of the way they act and live. They are xenophobic and isolationists, they constantly lose people (especially the Enclave in three huge defeats, while there weren't much of them from the beginning to start with, especially after the Oil Rig) and they can't replace them because they will never ever recruit from the outside of their faction (Tactics and F3 differs on that). BoS started out as a small group of military deserters, and they've always stayed together and stayed away, hidden in some remote and secure bunkers. They rarely go out to actively fight opponents and other people's wars, unless there's a lot of tech to gain and a small chance to lose their own people because they can't afford to lose them. In Fallout 3 they love to help weak wastelanders without getting paid in tech, even though they lose men like russians in WW2. The Invincible Power Armor have also been degraded to some kind of post-apoc plate mail on the east coast, and has lost its great resistance to damage.

It also depends very much on where the game takes place. Since BoS started out as a small faction, and has mostly remained like that, in California, they can't stretch out over the whole of america. Sure, they for some reason walked the entire way to the opposite coast in what, 2 years, for no apparent reason except that there might be tech there (like no other city much closer would have tech) and convenietly enough, there's a huge horde of orks super mutants there, aswell as a huge army of Enclave in the very same city. Talk about coincidence. So it's only natural that they skip their original mission and put men on protecting civilians from the american pre-government and the huge mutant infestation. Instead of hiding, gathering tech and not risking their lives in some place else haha.

In Tactics it was explained why they built blimps and flew off - they wanted to hunt down the Unity remnants (although, if I were a BoS elder, I'd say let them run and be someone elses problem, we're just here for the tech anyways)... but then they crashed, and saw the oppirtunity (and need) to recruit tribals and build a huge army to gain territory and power, kill off raiders and muties and anything else that opposes them, and get tech at the same time, to then go back to their xenophobic ways and kill everyone unpure instead. Btw, this is the brotherhood I'd like to see again. I wanna see if the Barnaky ending is canon, that'd be a dope storyline for a game.

No they're not. For example, there were only three BoS members in Fallout 2 and they gave you only one quest.

Another being, we can avoid them completely in Fallout


The Brotherhood in FO3 makes little sense, more then the Enclave being there but still not much sense.

If we go to another new location say Louisiana or Ontario Canada and "out look BoS are here." That would just be stupid. For a people that are not letting in New Blood and slowly dying out they sure are everywhere. Lyons group is still to small and there is also the Outcast to deal with. People always seem to forget about them.

Only BoS I want to see again are te MWBoS I want to know what happened to them. Its been close to ten years now

Yes! Bring on the Barnaky ending and BoS would be the "bad guys" this time instead of Enclave, see how the Oblivion fanbase will handle their White Knight-faction turning "evil" :chaos:

Now that is interesting. I've never really digged around the Tactics endings, but BoS being evil? THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES BETH!: :ahhh:

Kill them all, get rid of them please, overused faction is overused,

Killing off a faction before they get overused is a good thing in my opinion, kill them while they're liked, or at least before they reach the 'cameo-fan-wa*k' leagues.

AND FINALY THE ENCLAVE COULD BE THE GOOD GUYS!!!!..............................I HAVE SPOKEN!

They are all over the us. The only way to get rid of them is to kill them.
Why not make a faction so big and strong the BoS would half to die. Sure it would end up replacing the BoS but it would be for the better as a new start of sorts.

BoS was a minor faction until FO3 or tactics, but many people, like myself, didn't play Tactics.

That means BoS, being major faction in one game, they are overused? In that case, may as well kill off NCR, Legion, and House.

Let's not have vaults, overseers, raiders, ghoul citties, or former vault dwellers. Let's also get rid of any mobsters or casinos, and merchant caravans. All of those groups and factions are overused and nothing but fanfare.

I just wanna walk the wasteland killing radscorps. Sounds like fun. Not.

BoS, enclave, vaults, are all fallout lore and story. I remember playing fo 1 and 2 when it first came out, and everyone wanted more of this mysterious BoS group. FO3 provides that, and now people whine it fanfare and overplayed? Lmao.

WBoS in bad shape, like I explained in previous post. However, some members realize must change or they will die out. MWBoS and EBoS have already adapted to the changing times. Outcasts prolly in same dire situation as WBoS, and maybe if they return west they will see this.

Enclave is guaranteed stronger than you think. Just cause a few old coots don't know anything, people think Enclave dead. Lol.

Things that make rpg fun is story and new stuff. But you don't just make a group disappear until you finish their story. If a future fo game removes BoS or Ennclave, then I want to play it, so I can absorb the story.

Come to the dark side bliviongate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58

well in fallout 2 you pretty much ended the enclave
are they still here yes
are they strong nope
In fallout 2 you pretty much weakened the enclave so bad they started to die out. there still strong in some areas but in the west you might as well say there dead.

Yeah, then we could kill them off for good, and with the moral high ground to boot!

[img]http://www.crestock.com/uploads/blog/2008/propagandaposters/us_propaganda-31.jpg[/img]

I pretty much answered this in the enclave post.

It says in fo timeline enclave spread out and took to hiding across the globe before the war. I guarantee enclave had many plans, more than just oil rig.

Only enclave who would have been on the rig are those who could have feasibly been there. Any other would have remained in their bunker, bases, whatever.

So until we start exploring some abondoned enclave bases and hacking computers for info, they are mostly a mystery.

It says the government spread out to bunkers across the globe. President and Enclave went to the Rig. The virus they were working on would have killed anyone not inoculated against their virus. Now how are they going to inoculated those Enclave on the other side of the world?