2 things.
1. It says Games For Windows. Without Live.
2. It says PC Game on the Bethesda website. On some games it says GFWL. But on Skyrim it says PC. So Hooray.

I soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hope it's like NV and not like FO3. I hate GFWL it's slow and always crashes my system and povuholo mentioned the rest on page 1. If they want copy protection/way to distribute dlcs/whatever I hope it's steam!!!!!

Because Steam is DRM, and Steam is the DRM which this game will be using. Opponents of Steam are upset that they have to get the CLIENT, and by doing so activate their game online. This brings an unnecessary online aspect to the situation which you yourself want to avoid, and so I'm just giving ways which that could be avoided. By no means do I think that purchasers of a retail copy should be required to have online verification more than once, if ever. I'm simply proposing a built in lightweight version of the service that uses a disk check and saves user credentials X amount of times unless you actually authenticate it online, in which usual usage terms apply. I don't know how I don't have a clue, because you really seem out of touch yourself if you assume that publishers will release their game without DRM. You're calling me out for attempting to compromise with this situation.

Like native 360 controller support. A handy feature for some game titles. (TES/Fallout series and FPSers excluded for me.)



That would be my biggest complaint against it, very annoying! Sell me a $20 card for $20+local taxes and all would be good. Not all of us have a CC and get ripped off blind using points. Money talks, MS BS points blow!

Other than that, Steam caused me a bit of grief way back when HL2 came out. It has since much improved and neither platform have caused me any major (or minor really) issues since.

while needing to download the client may be a small part of the issue, it's not the whole issue. the control that Steam removes or attempts to hide from the user is a much bigger issue than the client. While I do think think that No DRM is best for the user, I hope that Beth will have appropriate DRM per the the medium used.

Can you describe (exactly) the control that is removed, in what way and to what extent?? I use Steam and everything I want to do to a non Steam game I can also do to a Steam game. What problems with control have you had with Steam??

That's just a basic facet of all DRM. They want to hinder your ability to potentially allow unauthorized users to get copies of your game. Steam is used because it ties games to a profile, preventing other people from using it. Most of the arguments against Steam would go away if they removed the forced client and online authentication, opting for a built in steam shell and disk check instead. It would be good if you could somehow limit the amount of times that disk is installed, then remove that limit when it's actually activated online.

You cannot give it to a friend/brother once you are done playing it, as your other games are also on that account.

Nor can you sell it without selling your entire account. They also have the power to take away anything you purchase through them and they don't even have to tell you why.

That's fair. Steam is more unique in that regard because it uses profile-based DRM, though DRM in general has killed the used PC games market (I haven't been able to sell a used PC game at Gamestop since, well, ever...). This same sort of thing happens on the Xbox, though the Xbox has an added feature that allows anyone playing on the same console on which an item was bought can also use said item. If I download a map pack for Halo, my sister can use my Xbox and play the map pack despite the fact that she didn't buy it. If we want to use this scenario with Steam, everyone on a single computer could use any game purchased by someone on that computer.

A potential solution to this would be to allow players to transfer their licenses to other players, essentially converting your game licenses into gift licenses. The problem with this is that Valve hates RMT, and it would allow people to subvert Valve's pricing by selling "used" games at lower price, despite the fact that they are indistinguishable from new games due to their digital nature. The used game market right now only flourishes based on the two principles that you cannot duplicate physical games and the lower price comes at the risk of a faulty product. Digital games, however, can be duplicated easier and are identical regardless of the circumstances in which they were acquired.

Valve could set up a "borrowing" service that temporarily transfers licenses to other users, but this is difficult to regulate. And while all of this can be handled in theory, it also breaks the nature of offline play, where Valve's regulations can't touch your game.

In an ideal world, neither. But if it must be one of them, Steam.

You'll have to ask Steam for that. Bethesda doesn't necessarily know this, especially if it isn't available on Steam until several months after release.

Support the developer instead and just buy your brother/friend another one?? And are you really ever going to be finished with Skyrim?? I certainly won't be. Or are you perhaps annoyed that you can't just buy one copy and then install it on your computer and your brothers computer so you can both play it at the same time?? Which isn't allowed anyway.









The same argument can be used against non Steam games. This is from the Fallout 3 retail version EULA.


So if they wanted to they could terminate the Agreement and licenses and you can't do anything about it because you accepted the EULA. Bethesda are just as likely to terminate your contract as Steam is, which is to say, they aren't.

Likewise you can't sell it either.



Steam just enforces what's already in the EULA. Deal with it.

The idea of Steam as an "effective" DRM is laughable. Nobody in their right mind would have one key that opens/operates every door/vehicle the frequent, neither would they make every single password the same as their ATM code. But somehow the executives at game companies are convinced that they are better protected by using the exact same DRM scheme as every other game.

The idea of a non online steam client is a good one, have you shared it with Valve? I have come up with a few different ideas on how something like that could work, but they have never responded to me. I know they have a place for suggestions, maybe if their clientelle starts asking they might consider it. (As opposed to my "I'm not a customer but could be if..." emails)

Don't you get it? Steam isnt used to protect against online-piracy, but to destroy the second hand market and borrowing games from your friends. Every game is linked to one single account and that is that.

Steam is good for me, the GFWL have country i-dont-know-what block. i am from brasil, GFWL block my games... becouse this i have to make an fake account from us .-. steam is perfect!

Not directed only at Kinaite

This makes me want to ask the question "Who all hare want others to have to use Steam?"

just because Steam is good for some doesn't mean it's good for everyone.

Re-reading the first post, this thread was supposed to be about which online digital distribution system that Skyrim is hoped to be available through.
Personally, as far as online sales of digitally distributed copies of Skyrim goes, I hope that Bethesda refuse to allow any single distribution platform to claim Skyrim as an exclusive.

Rusty Gunn, your question would be better served in a separate thread, discussing wether or not the forced application of an online gaming and sales client should be applied to the physical retail copies of the PC version of a single player offline game.

Jenifur Charne

Just do it the way it was in Oblivion. DLC worked fine via their website and people are still playing the games. For the people who want it there can be a Steam version of course but please dont let it be mandatory for everyone.

I recently bought my first game which uses GFWL, it lags so badly whilst signed onto GFWL it's unplayable, when I signed out it's fine but cos I've signed out I can't save any single player game progress.
I own over sixty games I bought online from steam, most of them single player games, none lag whilst signed into steam, and if I switch to offline mode I can still use all single player game options including save...

I paid ￡14.99 for this game on steam.. had I bought it on GFWL I would have paid ￡29.99.

Pray it's on Steam not GFWL, unless you've got money to burn and enjoy the tutorials of games so much you want to play them over and over.... or d..on'...t.....min..d...a......b..i...t..of...la...g.

After the crappy way GFWL handled fallout 3, I'm sure Beth will ditch it for Skyrim.

I would pray that Skyrim is available on as many online sales platforms as possible, and that Skyrim does not tie game features to one specific online sales platform.
The wider the choice of platforms, the higher the likelihood of finding a platform that works well for you.

Jenifur Charne

See? Simple as that. Steam is a PC centric platform that, to me, hardly ever presented any sort of problem, most of those being easily solved. Those are balanced by the fact that everything is so seamlessly integrated and fits my needs and my friends groups perfectly. GFWL is a weird platform with awful interface that isn't as intrusive, in exchange for the ridiculous way they treat save files. On the other hand, I fear for modding should I get it on steam, due to the previous incompatibility with OBSE.

I, however, beleive BEthesda is aware of such limitations and how widespread Steam is nowadays, so they'll probably find a way around it, I assume.

The hell with GFWL.

With the success of New Vegas, I'm sure they'll implement Steamworks with Skyrim.

I don't want steam. If I go to the store, buy a REAL disk, and install it on my machine, I will not be forced to use some third party software to play the game I purchased. If there is a steam requirement, or, a GFWL requirement, I simply won't buy the game.

There is NO effective DRM. Not even steam. DRM only adds cost, and makes life difficult for honest people. The pirates still crack the game, sometimes even before its official release. And guess what? NO other requirements than simply having the game installed. I can see why some folks would rather get the pirate version, than the retail version...... As has been said, DRM just kills the secondary market. When I want to sell my car, I don't have to ask permission, nor does the new user have to get it activated from the manufacturer. Why is software so different?