Funny, I got a disc that had all of the FO3 DLCs on it which didn't require GFWL and cost less than buying them individually online.

Also, you can simply move your savegame files into the "online" GFWL save folder for your profile and voila! They can now be played while logged in.

GFWL>Steam

I'm afraid, contrary to popular belief, ignorance of something doesn't make it go away. You *had* to use GfWL without third party tools, even if you didn't see it. Steam is just more visible.

No, you don't. It is simply a feature pack, not a DRM and therefore the game can be run, updated, or expanded (DLC) without ever using or installing GfWL.

Stop right there. The whole point is that I DIDN"T HAVE TO activate anything to play my game or the add-ons. I had 2 dealings with GFWL: it installed it when I installed FO3, then I uninstalled it. Done. Never heard about it or from it again.

... unfortunately many banks too have outsourced many SA functions to places with questionable security. Off-off-topic:They may "guarantee" whatever they want, but guarantee != won't happen. Guarantees are merely agreements of the extent of liability between two or more parties.

Sure, you could sell you account. But then I'm sure there's something in their ToS that they'd use to simply shut down the account if they ever figure out that it has been sold.

No, you can run, update, or expand it without installing the GfWL *client*, GfWL is still running in the game, (try hitting Home) and can only be disabled with third party tools.

Steam

Such as its own built-in uninstaller?

The uninstaller for the client, yes.

Negative Ghostrider, this is wrong.

Don't even think of telling me I'm making stuff up either because if I figured people would call me a liar (they have) for saying so I would have screen-capped the ADVERTISING the steam client was doing WHILE PLAYING a game on someone else's computer. I nearly gave the poor guy a heart attack when I yelled at Valve for it.

And you guys say GFWL is intrusive. Sure. About as intrusive as, oh, I dunno, the cashier at 7/11. Which is to say it's not. People bag on GFWL for one reason and one reason only: Microsoft. Valve is doing things 10x more evil and heinous to its users than Microsoft ever has. You guys just don't want to admit it.

Fixed that for you. 1.7 GB, true story.

GFWL is faulty, fail-prone software designed to mimmick Xbox Live, hence not good for PC (the interface alone proves how bad GFWL is). Only useful for console achievement hunters.

Those complaining for Steam resource usage would be better with a standalone game, not tied to any service...so no, GFWL it's not good for them either.



I'll be happy as long as GFWL isn't used, that way Microsoft may realize the only options are improving the service dramatically or killing it.

Plenty of games are both Steam and GFWL. Fallout, GTAIV, Arkham Asylum...
I'll buy it through Steam 'cuz its hyper convenient.

Is it me, or shouldn't digitally distributed games be cheaper than hardcopy? No disc, no box, no manual... . That means cheaper, right?

Of course we would be better off with a stand-alone game. Unfortunately, developers are foisting these services on us. I'm pretty sure that, given the choice, a lot of people wouldn't be using either steam or GFWL were it an option.

Well I'm sure most people would prefer no DRM at all. But then even less people would prefer acquiring the game legitimately, and then developers would prefer to stop making games for the PC when they stop making money.

Steam is OK. I hate GFWL because I have to edit save files and such after getting new content. Steam sales are super nice too, buying games for under 5$ as opposed to microsoft's scamming 'point' system. I bought 1 DLC through GFWL, hated the service and never used it again. I bought several games through Steam and never noticed the DRM except when I fire it up before playing games. I guess they could always use that BS ubisoft DRM that requires you to be online AT ALL TIMES while playing a single-player game. I bet that would go over real well.

1. True, but not Bethesda's games, which is all I use any 3rd party program like Steam or GFWL for.
2. Doesn't let me play NV everytime my internet goes out
3. I use MS points for my Xbox and have plenty available, so that's why I use em.

Just a disclaimer though, I would prefer neither, but it's unavoidable.

Not necessarily. The costs associated with digital distribution are high, especially when the infrastructure doesn't belong to you. I believe Valve contracts Akamai to provide the infrastructure for world-wide footprint, and that is not cheap.

.. and even if it were cheaper, I seriously doubt the savings are going to trickle down to us, the poor saps paying $60.00 plus a pop.

I hope they wont make us need to worry about stupid GFWL or [censored] [censored] steam. but i know that we'll have to settle with either one. making it buyable on steam tho kinda like oblivion... maybe.

How you used and how you didn't use GFWL, Doesn't speak for us all. I hated it.

Gears of War, (essentially the "New Vegas" for GFWL).

See I like Steam so I don't care if they use it for DRM.
However I can understand why others don't want it, registering to play a game you already purchased isn't fair.

I was about to say "isn't DRM" if not for the fact that you do need it to get the DLC. And to get it, you need the serial key of the game itself. It's easier to pirate from that than other systems, but DRM nonetheless.



Believe me, it was a problem for me. I consider it a flaw at least. If Microsoft is going to prevent me from accessing my save games without being connected to the internet, they could at least have done cloud backups so I could use the same save game on multiple systems...



I honestly don't mind it as much on the Xbox. It's not like Microsoft is the only guilty party in that regard (looking at you Wii Points), but I would greatly prefer it to be expressed in real currency so I can track my spending easier. They trick you with it because you purchase the points in advance, and then what you're left with is monopoly money that is redeemed for shiny things with no additional cost to you. You don't buy the products, you buy the money. This is better on a gaming system like the Xbox, but when it bleeds into their other services I just cringe a little. That's one of the reasons why no one likes Zune or GFWL...

I personally hope they don't use Steam. Something like what Dragon Age 2 does would be most acceptable to me out of what's been used recently. It's faster to get into the game than Steam, and doesn't dictate what version of the game I should play.

With FO3 that was only the case, so long as you did not try to patch to most recent.
If you did attempt to use the most recent patch, then you had to have GWFL installed and updated to latest, before you were permitted to patch FO3 to latest. Thankfully, there were post-patch tools available to remove GWFL from patched FO3 and your system.

The problem that I and other gamers have with such online systems is their forced, non-optional, application on players of offline, single-player games.
I don't do online purchase of soft copies of online distributed games.
I don't do online gaming.
I don't do multiplayer gaming
I buy the full physical copies of games
I play single player offline games.
Forcing gamers such as myself to register with, install, and use an online gaming and purchase client, is a sure-fire way to make us refuse to buy or download such online infected games.

Jenifur Charne

What about GFWL AND STEAM

xD
Ok, it's not good to joke about something like this! :violin: