There Kinda Both. Cheese Jerky humans?

You good sir insult the regal Molerat to even THINK it would eat any less than Cheesy Poofs :slap:

Everyone should respect each other's opinion, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with it. In fact, I was out of line; I wasn't angry at the whole post, but certain parts hit a nerve, and you admitted yourself that you were wrong.

But you just said in that post, 'why didn't the humans just move out'? Are you out of your mind? It's their tower, why should they move out just because some zombie wants to take control?

And I think Roy made it worse for his people. Who knows, it might have only been Tenpenny who hated ghouls at first, and what he says, goes. But no, they can't just get on with their lives -- they have to take it personally. They started to get vicious and sent death threats -- that alone can turn people into bigots. So can you really blame the human residents?
The humans didn't pick a fight and you know it. They actually accepted the ghouls, and look at them! Really, Anthony Ling picking a fight with an angry, armoured zombie? I don't think so.

Oh, and good work, Assassin. Heh, you always succeed in expressing my opinions as well as your own. :goodjob:

Yeah, but like what Holy Assassin said, it's just a game :/ If it were real life, THEN I could understand why you'd be starting a heated argument. But...it's only fictional. No one will EVER turn in to a Ghoul; we'd just...die :/

Yeah, Roy made an ass out of himself by killing a few humans. So what? That's ROY. You don't see the Ghouls in the Underworld going up to any smoothskin wanderer, and suddenly bludgeoning them to death, just because they hate smoothskins. They actually put a little TRUST in to any wanderer that venture in to their concourse, because THEY believe that not all smoothskins are as bad as the next. Give THEM a little credit for showing no prejudice :/

Showing no prejudice!? You must be kidding me.

The second you enter Underworld, you're bombarded with prejudice. Recall what Winthrop says. He explicitly states that you and them are different. They are Ghouls, and you're a smoothskin.

A 'smoothskin'. Did you make that distinction? No. In-fact, you weren't even given time to form an opinion. It was thrown in your face. What is that, if not prejudice? And it's not just Winthrop.

Let's not forget Crowley's dialogues. I don't even have to paraphrase them, they're plain insults to the human race.

Please, get your facts straight. Try another play-through, examine everything. Then talk.

You say that, but do they really trust you that much? Sure, they don't physically attack you (likely because they know it'll end in a bloody death for them), but they are instantly suspicous of you because they generally don't trust humans, and that's what makes humans not trust ghouls.

Go on, walk past a ghoul in Underworld, they'll say something along the lines of 'there's a lot more of us down here there than are of you'. See? They don't give you a chance. They assume you're probably going to cause trouble.

Nothing will ever change my mind on this -- if I meet a ghoul, there's a very high chance he'll/she'll be a complaining [censored] or he'll/she'll be verbally hostile towards me. Though, I do enjoy hearing people defend these creatures.

@Assassin. Exactly! They call humans bigots, but then they clearly state that you're a human, they're a ghoul, and we're different. Okay, then, don't expect us to treat you like a person. Really, they bring it upon themselves.

If the country is to be great again, then we cannot have petty arguments part of daily life. One side has to go... and ghouls say they're no humans, so...

Radroach then? Boatfly? Whatever!

Ghouls would make for a disgusting dish. Just imagine that crusty skin. Ew. :yuck:

*Vomits* :yuck:

Crusty skin? We're eating ghouls, not Rush Limbaugh :laugh:

Can you blame them!? They're IN Underworld because the people OUTSIDE of Underworld will either shoot at them, or KILL them. They don't TRUST every Wastelander (is that better, Holy? F( that walks in because they don't want what's happened to THEM to come to their one and only place they can find salvation and peace away from Ghoul-hating bigots. Plus, it's you Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel bastards that put the fear of suspicion in to them in the first place
Seriously, I don't blame them one bit for being a little bit suspicious, but still! They might VERBALLY say something that would make them seem threatening, but they don't DO it. Not unless you're the one provoking the fight, THEN out comes their guns, 'cause they have a right to defend themselves.

I don't have a strong opinion on Ghouls one way or another. They're just humans who look a bit different, some of them are alright (Gob), and some of them are outright villainous (Set). Psychologically they're no different than normals, so I judge them individually as I'd judge any individual normal human: by their character and actions.

Personally, I think they're kinda awesome
I'd love to be able to become one and live forever and to be healed by radiation

And here's another thing to think about:

Ok. Ghouls aren't COMPLETE Angels, we ALL should know that. There are the bad, as well as the good. No world is perfect without the balance of good and evil :/

But then, you scrutinize the Ghouls because of what ill things SOME have done...Ghouls aren't the only ones at fault. Many human beings are.

Look at the Raiders, for instance...Come on. You can't SERIOUSLY tell me that THOSE guys are doing the right thing! They victimize innocent Wastelanders; Ghoul OR just a regular person! They torture, dismember, MURDER human beings just for their own sick pleasure. Attacking a lone wanderer like a pack of wolves are considered their all-time favorite hobby, they pillage small villages made by settlers, and scatter THEIR body parts throughout the desert. Hell, it even looks like they attack their OWN members, according to some of the bodies I've found staked and hung a few feet off the ground.

And the Enclave? Oh, Chris, your organization aren't the Angels of the Wastes, either. Attacking helpless Wastelanders? What have THEY done to deserve an untimely demise? Trying to survive, and hope for a better America, like your acclaimed President Eden promised them? The people that DESERVE to see a brighter future are the ones YOUR great conglomerate are destroying. Just because they're 'unfitting for the great future that America will have'...They've survived THIS long, what makes you think they're UNFITTING now? :/

The only reason the Enclave act like the bad boys towards Wastelanders is because Wastelanders have survived this long without their fancy gizmos and high-tech power armor. All they have are the clothes on their backs, a few caps, and maybe a bottle of booze or two. They're livin' the high life out in the Wastes, while the Enclave feel insecure without their electro-metal shells! Jealous are jealous

EDIT: And I'm not saying all Ghouls are innocent, alright? I agree with the fact that there are some evil Ghouls in the Wasteland, 'cause 100% of the Ghoul population are good, there's a balance of good and evil characters. But ALL people in the Fallout universe, Wastelanders, Ghouls, Super Mutants, are either good or bad (and yes, there are good Super Muties...Uncle Leo and Fawkes are the examples)

I can blame them. Yes. The very same treatment you ask me to give them, they don't give to me. Ghoul Lovers wish we would look at each Ghoul as an individual, rather than have a general hatred towards them. How can we humans do this when they don't do it to us? They have taken the humans that shoot them, and used them as the flagship for all human-kind. Then, they ask us NOT to take Roy Phillips as their flagship because he's half feral.

Who are they to tell us how to behave? They damn well deserve to be shot at for their behavior. As for they don't do it. Yeah, bull. which feral hasn't attacked me without provocation?
I've said it before, Ghoulification is a downwards spiral that leads to becoming a Feral, and those are threats to society. We can't have them around. If we just kill all ferals, and leave friendly Ghouls, the friendlies will eventually become Feral, and perhaps infect others. (This is possible, go to Dunwich Building and listen to the Holotapes found there). It will be a never ending chase if we only kill ferals. We must wipe out all Ghouls. It's for the greater good.

Bittercup once said, that Im saying; by the same logic, we should kill all people in mental asylums. No. Why? Because our society allows them to live. We have facilities to care for their symptoms, and they have families that can detect their condition and enroll them into the Asylum as soon as possible. And the few that are free, perhaps children of those who couldn't afford Asylum are so few that they cannot effectively topple society.

The Ghouls are so far spread that even if we did have a Ghoul Treatment Center; we can't go around rounding up ferals and plug them into the place. They're just too abundant now. We've passed that point. If it was an option, Enclave would have thought of it, but it isn't, so they didn't. Perhaps things may change if the Doc in Underworld finds a cure, but Underworld doesn't even have a fraction of all Ghouls in the Wasteland, let alone the country. How much good could he possibly do? Cure a couple hundred? Maybe a thousand if we stretch it. But thats all. Ferals are crazy, they're not looking for help, they're not looking for a cure, they won't waltz into Underworld for it. They must be eradicated.

Saying you hate Ghouls is just as bad as saying you hate the blacks on this game.

And I wonder what was in your mouth that left the bad taste. :rofl:

This is the Ghoul Lover's only defense: "Humans aren't perfect either". Whoever said they were? Why do you even bring that up? Is the argument 'Who's better Ghouls or Humans?'

No.

The argument is, 'Are Ghouls Good or Bad'. Quit bringing Mankinds flaws into it, for it has no bearing whatsoever on the situation.

As for why the Enclave kill humans. Again, the greater good. You act all high and mighty now. Would you even be in the same room as a person in real life, if you knew he was Irradiated? I strongly doubt it. Irradiated people are put through acid baths and what not. Once again, if such recourses were available Enclave would gladly do it. But their not. Extreme situations call for extreme measures. They are too many, and too far spread out to kill fix, or even kill one by one. Which is why Modified FEV came into existence. Its not a personal vendetta against Wastelanders, it's the fact that their simply irradiated. We must start afresh. Do you know what has happened to the children of Hiroshima Nuke victims? Deformity for generations. And deformities in Fallout mean Ghoulification or Mutation. We can't take that kinda risk. Not on the tight rope we're walking on now. We have to wipe out everyone before us. And start from scratch. With no one irradiated.

I love how you keep trying that name thing, Pizza the Butt. I won't have any of it.

As for that racial connection, I don't see where you even got it. Really, think before you type.

About what was in my mouth... You don't even want to know. :shakehead:

Exactly! Renegade: did I ever say humans were perfect? No, I did not, and I've said raiders and such are malcontents who don't care about America's rebirth, and our troops will round them up for execution as well. You're acting as if I'm saying that it's only ghouls who do bad things.

And by the way, don't try to use what you believe to be the Enclave's flaws against me, because it won't work. I actually have a different set of beliefs to Eden, so don't assume I think he's a white knight preparing to save the wasteland.

Do you really think that the Enclave are jealous of pathetic wastelanders? Be serious, please. And you act as if the soldiers are pyschotic killers. Half of the reason those wastelanders are dead is because they are interfering with the Enclave's operations -- something they have been warned not to do. You really think they walk across the wasteland, looking to kill off anyone they find? No.
What good are wastelanders, anyway? They do nothing to help the United States and I can only imagine they're living in fear... we don't need that. They're useless, and I do not want lazy shufflers populating the country. Even worse they are most likely heavily irradiated.

God bless the Enclave, people, and remember: a chain is only as strong as its weakest link... the ghouls are most certainly a weak link.

Ghouls ARE good AND bad. There is no one-side on the issue, considering that there are a FEW that are bad, and a FEW that are good...and the others are neutral.

The only reason why I brought mankind in to the issue was of comparison, because, *gasp* believe it or not, GHOULS ARE HUMANS, TOO. So doesn't THAT make them part of mankind?

Of course not...'cause YOU, and Chris over there, believe that Ghouls are a separate race. That's it! 'cause everything that DOESN'T look human CAN'T be human. They can be horribly mutated jolly green giants, or disfigured irradiated zombies. If they don't look human, then they MUSTN'T be human >:/

Well said, Boy-O. Well said.

@Renegade learn what the Enclave is about, read their wiki page, etc. Listen to the Enclave Radio in-game. Talk to Col. Autumn at the end of the game, with a decent Speech Skill.

Learn about us, talking ill, or disagreeing with something you don't fully understand is; Im sorry to say; plain stupid. Like having an opinion for the sake of having an opinion.

Just because their the games canon enemies doesn't make them bad. Most of the Enclave's Enemies are like that simply because the game tells them to be. Don't even read further. What makes you think LW is such a good guy? Why are Dad, and Doctor Li so good? Because you know their story?

Doesn't each Enclave Officer have a story? A viewpoint? LW did good things like give water to beggars. Who's to say Enclave Officer didn't gain any good Karma throughout his life?

Once again, we've come to the same point. Explaining it repeatedly is quiet irksome, I hope you know that. However, me being the more compassionate one. I shall re-explain. Ghouls are the ones who made that distinction. Not us. For further explanation, please refer to the previous post on this exact same point. Re-read it. Get it into your head, so we can move on. Thank you.

How can I be expected to believe ghouls are human, too, when they make sure you clearly understand they're different. I'm not going to treat them nicely if they think that way.

And this has gone much further beyond 'good' and 'bad' now -- it's about what is best for the country's rebirth. Ghouls prevent that. We cannot lively peacefully knowing that a ghoul can become feral at any time; it will lead to many gruesome deaths.

I have a soul, and it will probably be tough watching ghouls being slaughtered (they were ONCE human), but understand that by closing one door, we open another.

Chriso, she seems not to understand simple points such as these so lets; for this instant agree with her.

Alright, Ghouls are Humans. Happy?

Now look. These particular humans are unstable, and once destabilized, become very dangerous.
"What should we do?"
"Put them in an Ayslum?"
"Sure"
"Do we have one?"
"No"
"What then?"
"Exterminate them?"
"I don't want to, but its the only way"
"I know, its a must"

Now.. we have the good fortune of knowing which of these humans have that condition of unstability. Just by looking at their face.

Win. These kind of wins, are the sweetest.

Assassin, if I could sig everything you've said in this topic, I would. I really would. People need to shed their ignorance and learn the facts if they truly want to understand what we're about.

If they don't agree after that, then so be it, but we will never let them prevail. All great men have had enemies, but the greatest never let that stop them. I believe that we are the greatest.