Just wondering something...

I've seen how you can reach softcap with light armor, do a lot of dps using Sword n Board, everyone can stealth... people are talking about 49 pts in health, how it doesn't gimp your toon to do so...

So many talks about how the game seems to be broken, due to things like this.

So, here's a question: Has anyone had a toon/build that actually svckED?? (figuratively of course)

I'm wondering if this is the ultimate vanilla game, where no build svcks, all builds work... I mean, we can purposefully gimp ourselves by only using basic attacks... but if we have a semi-honest attempt to play a toon, has anyone gone, "WHOA that build blows!"???

A build that svcks for someone is an OP build for another person. It just depends on how the player manages to control it.

All builds work cause game = easy.

Daedric summoning tree from Sorcerer svcks hard. I think thats the reason why I hated playing Sorcerer a few betas ago. Im going to hit the respec shrine and go almost full Storm Calling and see how that goes.

There just isnt enough information yet, not enough people have access to the end game.

What you call vanilla, I call freedom and diversity. If the abilities and classes and perks are relatively balanced, it SHOULD be hard to make a build that's horrible. You have 6 skills on your hot bar, no reason why any of those should be useless.

I have seen people list some pretty crappy builds before. Particularly anything that is magicka only or stamina only with no ways to manage their resources besides their base passive regens.

Also, there is a build or two where only basic attacks can actually be pretty useful.

In pvp there are many that lack the ability to compete effectively.

Melee with no range or gap closers.

Builds with no CC.

Heal builds with no magicka regen.

Now that said your term svcks is not well defined. While I would consider the builds above as bad for pvp others might like them.

From a min max standpoint there are far more "lackluster" builds than there are effective.

Vanilla to me does not imply boredom or anything... I consider 4th Edition D&D vanilla, because it has a very 'basic sameness' about every class/race build. In fact, if I could liken ESO to anything then 4th edition comes very close to being 'it'... but, would have to say all abilities are 'at-will' except ultimates which are 'encounter'...

By 'svcks' I mean, take the build, go fight 3 enemies of your level, die 2 or 3 times or have to run... now go fight 3 different enemies of your level, die 2 or 3 times or have to run... go fight enemies 5 levels below your level, die once maybe twice or have to run.... Those builds, the ones where you go, "WOW, I definitely need to fix SOMETHING!" like most games have...

If you can win 85-90% of all combats of equal level, and 60-70% of fights ABOVE your level (like +1 or 2 levels), with ANY build, then this is what I mean by my question... If ALL builds are pretty much successful... then the game isn't challenging at all... it is just an interactive story... may as well be playing Myst or something... like I said in another post, only times I have died so far is when I jumped off of a couple cliffs (testing for falling barriers), dying to slaughterfish because I was exploring, and died to an enemy that was 5-10 levels higher than me (I was in the WRONG place for my level)... and the sad part is, I did fairly well on the one time I died in combat!

This worries me... if combat is so NON challenging as to make EVERY build at least DECENT, then what is the real purpose of any of the choices we make? If, when asked a question, no matter what choice you make you get rewarded the exact same... then why is there a question at all?

I've made four characters in beta, all with completely different builds, and sent each of them to fight Gutrsipper (pre-nerf) at level 8. Of them, two (the second and third) were able to defeat him with no problems, while two (first and fourth) had serious difficulty there and had to level up to beat him.

So yes, it DOES make a difference what your build is.

You will win most fights IF you use tactics and don't use the standard MMO plan of run up to mob and face roll the keyboard.

Zos took several fights (quick search on these forums will give you details) and actually had to scale them back because people were not used to thinking they are more than just their build.

As you said svcks is to die 3-4 times on trash mobs. Any build in the game has this possibility if the person on the keyboard doesn't use things like block, dodge or the terrain to their advantage.

ESO is not your typical white bread MMO. It's not what I would call ground breaking either. But what it does do is rewards thinking and planning. Even the pvp is designed to reward those who plan on the macro level rather than just playing the micro like most games.

A bad build from a min/max viewpoint is gimped. But if the player is smart enough they can still advance. At least till they reach vet content. Then unless you have a strong min/max build you will hit a wall like you describe forcing people to fix their build.

In short yes you can make things difficult for yourself or your team. But until the vet ranks you can't really prevent yourself from advancing. You may be bald from ripping your hair out trying to find alternate ways to do things but it can be done.

My first character will be a Nightblade (being objective here, Nightblades have it the hardest) maxing all craft skills. He will svck hard, and it will take a lot of work to make him passable for anything beyond solo PvE.

Won't stop me from playing the build and enjoying it.

It's possible to svck.

That's one of the things I enjoy about some games. When you come to a really difficult situation and have to try different strategies to overcome the challenge. I used to like trying to solo higher level content and dungeons that required a group, with classes and builds that weren't exactly suited to it, but also with classes and builds perfectly suited to it. Just like when duelling other players when learning a class, every defeat is a lesson learned and a step towards becoming a better player.

when we talk PVP we can talk about great and poor builds more closeley, but in general what level zones have we touched so far?

I am under the impression we have not even touched 15+ zones

in any case maybe somethings will come up

Some builds are better than others, but most builds will have niche strengths.