"Girls of white glamour" : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:10 pm

I'm still back in the Sermons, poring over it once again, wanting to take in every detail.

Certitude is for the puzzle-box logicians and girls of white glamour who harbor it on their own time. I am a letter written in uncertainty.

So who is Vivec referring to when he mentions 'girls of white glamour'?

The context in Sermon 4 being this:

Finally the Chancellor of Exactitude appeared, and he was perfect to look upon from every angle. Vivec understood the challenge immediately and said:

'Certitude is for the puzzle-box logicians and girls of white glamour who harbor it on their own time. I am a letter written in uncertainty.'

The Chancellor bowed his head and smiled fifty different and perfect ways all at once. He pulled the astrolabe of the universe from his robe and broke it in half, handing both halves to the egg-image of Vivec.

» Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:52 pm

I'm still back in the Sermons, poring over it once again, wanting to take in every detail.

So who is Vivec referring to when he mentions 'girls of white glamour'?

The context in Sermon 4 being this:

Hurm, this is just my interpretation ,but here goes. In some cultures, white and not black is the color of death, which being the only thing that occurs in 100% in human lives is statistically perfect. However, Vivec proved that numerical perfection is not always a better alternative to a loose and fluid uncertainty, which is to say he is a mortal, but also a god.

It's just a more symbolic and "show don't tell" way of showing Vivec's dual nature.

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:33 am

The world trembles too much for the standard syllables to be anything more than transient festivities, but let them celebrate while they may. The truest language is composed of accomplishments: thusly seek heaven.

White-glamoured: Blessed with the opportunity to contemplate, but not burdened with the weight of consequence. To some this will be a portrait.

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:46 am

The first thing that sprung to mind is http://www.brides.com/images/vendor/dressgallery/bridal/stpucchi/00_main/9345_st_pucchi_wedding_dress_primary.jpg :shrug: But I don't think it has any importance beyond being a nice sounding phrase.

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:20 am

The first thing that sprung to mind is http://www.brides.com/images/vendor/dressgallery/bridal/stpucchi/00_main/9345_st_pucchi_wedding_dress_primary.jpg :shrug: But I don't think it has any importance beyond being a nice sounding phrase.

Sure seemed important to the Chancellor of Exactitude, though. I've been on a bit of a Roman bent which is why my mind went to white funeral dresses instead of a wedding dress.

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:36 am

Sure seemed important to the Chancellor of Exactitude, though. I've been on a bit of a Roman bent which is why my mind went to white funeral dresses instead of a wedding dress.

The exact wording is not important, but the message ("similarly, all other symbols of absolute reality are ancient ideas ready for their graves" -35) is important.

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:19 am

My mind went first to imagery of death, before marriage, as well.

But it could certainly be just marriage.

Or just a poetic phrase, it is Vivec after all.

» Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:11 pm

My mind went first to imagery of death, before marriage, as well.

But it could certainly be just marriage.

Or just a poetic phrase, it is Vivec after all.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-thirty-six-lessons-vivec-sermon-eleven

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:12 am

http://youtu.be/N2wqmGu1EY8, then http://www.mookychick.co.uk/body/how_to_get_pale_skin.php.

See how it fits in just fine?

At this the Old Bone folded unto itself twenty times until it became akin to milk, which Vivec drank, becoming a ruling king of the world.

Mission, accomplished Vivec rules the world and has always done so.

Finally the Chancellor of Exactitude appeared, and he was perfect to look upon from every angle. Vivec understood the challenge immediately and said:

Hey but wait a second! You can't do that, this contradicts with just about everything! How will anybody ever know what happens.

'Certitude is for the puzzle-box logicians and girls of white glamour who harbor it on their own time. I am a letter written in uncertainty.'

Go away [Khulman? I guess]. The only people who care are geek guys that waste their time on stupid details, and goth girls that never get out.

The Chancellor bowed his head and smiled fifty different and perfect ways all at once. He pulled the astrolabe of the universe from his robe and broke it in half, handing both halves to the egg-image of Vivec.

Fine. You can have your broken universe.

Vivec laughed and said, 'Yes, I know. The slave labor of the senses is as selfish as polar ice, and worsens when energies are spent on a life others regard as fortunate. To be a ruling king I will have to suffer much that cannot be suffered, and to weigh matters that no astrolabe or compass can measure.'

What a thankless task.

'Do not go to the realm of apology for absolution. Beyond articulation, there is no fault. The Adjacent Place, where the Grabbers live, is the illusion of the vocal or the middle realms of thought, by which I mean the constructed. This is how I stole the certainty of the Chancellor of Exactitude, perfect to look upon from every angle. When you come out of the vocal, you can never be certain.'

Like I told that smart ass before, this isn't about the stupid details. It's all constructed, when you can see beyond that you never need to mind those details.

edit:

Puzzlebox = Rubixcube.

» Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:34 pm

Very pretty prow.

» Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:37 pm

Is it a lack of understanding to ask if the Chancellor actually is someone? And who?

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:45 am

So who is Vivec referring to when he mentions 'girls of white glamour'?

Single lab coat wearing chicks with ugly glasses. The Houris Of Pedantry...

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:03 am

Is it a lack of understanding to ask if the Chancellor actually is someone? And who?

I doubt he is anyone. It reads like it's a reference not to waste time with perfection, unless the logic requires it, because only the dead or immortal have the time to spend on perfection.

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:59 am

Single lab coat wearing chicks with ugly glasses. The Houris Of Pedantry...

Somehow the girls mentioned remind me of the stereotypically "popular" girls such as cheerleaders instead of goths. But Proweler's interpretation is interesting.

» Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:59 pm

The Chancellor of Exactitude, presenting a clockwork universe as a sphere that he breaks into two halves, is clearly symbolic of the hyperstasis of Jyggalag and Lorkhan.

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:19 am

The Chancellor of Exactitude, presenting a clockwork universe as a sphere that he breaks into two halves, is clearly symbolic of the hyperstasis of Jyggalag and Lorkhan.

That was my initial thought as well.

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:04 pm

The Chancellor of Exactitude, presenting a clockwork universe as a sphere that he breaks into two halves, is clearly symbolic of the hyperstasis of Jyggalag and Lorkhan.

That makes sense, but it presupposes a Shivering Isles-eseque Jyggalag mythos existed at the time of the 36 Lessons. I think he was still a placeholder Daedra at that point.

Though, if you want to suggest the Isles Jyggalag fits the role, and so you can use him to link to lore with old lore, then that's certainly worth exploring.

» Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:55 am

That makes sense, but it presupposes a Shivering Isles-eseque Jyggalag mythos existed at the time of the 36 Lessons. I think he was still a placeholder Daedra at that point.

Though, if you want to suggest the Isles Jyggalag fits the role, and so you can use him to link to lore with old lore, then that's certainly worth exploring.

The name Jyggalag wasn't attached, but the ingredients were there: Lorkhan as the "spirit of limitation" connected to Sheogorath via their common association with the unstar.