I think this issue is already adressed my vanilla MW:

I think the levels reflect the mental development of the character, at least in Morrowind. In a situation like the one the Player Character is in, I find these steps of mentality quite reasonable as I even had moments like that in my life. If you keep in mind that these messages pop up after you slept, I find this really realistic now that I think about it.

There are good examples of games that only focus on skill development without levels at all. The best example is my favorite rogue-like "UnReal World" http://www.twitch.tv/jefmajor/b/311268962
Its completely free btw!

Just to be clear, my last post was not to be taken as saying there's something wrong with how Morrowind does it. In fact, I think Morrowind handles the whole "level" thing as well as any game like it (heh, heh... any other game like Morrowind... right.... /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' /> ). There's just nothing about the PC level and the "level-up" mechanism that mimics something I can relate to in terms of my own human development. My experience has actually been quite the opposite... instead of waking up with these monumental epiphanies that change my life forever, I find that I learn through a painfully slow process, an incredibly imperfect process, one that seems to go backwards almost as much as it goes forwards. I have the sense of making the much sought-after "intuitive leap" from time to time, but these things are fleeting, and sometimes lost. I get better at some things while others slip, and in that sense I can relate to the Skills and Attributes system. But there's no overriding measure, no cumulative figure that can be put on me at any given time (other than my age!), and I don't have the sense that my life is a process of going from one "awakening" to the next.

Tying this in to GCD (and the like) vs. vanilla leveling, I'd say GCD feels more natural, but it's still working within a leveled system, and so it can really only do so much. I think where GCD really shines is in the way it abstracts so much of the leveling mechanism away from the player. In the scope of "feeling more like real life", that's probably about as good as it can get.

Thanks again, all, for the thought-provoking replies!

i feel that leveling, at least in TES, is more like blessings from whatever spiritual governing system overlooks the world, so i suppose it's not something tangible in the real world.
i do find that i miss experience points in TES. notiably with quests. there's something about how completing quests forge a character into an experienced veteran that just doesn't translate well in TES.

In GC, if you take damage and increase your armor skills, you get an Endurance increase, which directly raises Hitpoints when it happens. You ONLY get hitpoints when that happens.

In "vanilla", you get increases in Hitpoints at each level-up, regardless of whether you use your armor skills or not. The only thing that changes is the MAGNITUDE of the increases, since those are based directly on your END level.

The problem comes in when you play a "mixed-class" character who occasionally fights, but relies on a mix of magic, ranged weapons, and rapid attacks to stagger the opponent, and so seldom takes damage in return. In essence, you get almost no increases in armor skill, and therefore almost NO extra hitpoints, which makes you increasingly fragile against the tougher opponents you face, and therefore you do even more to avoid taking hits, compounding the problem. Try playing a Level 20 "semi-fighter" character on Solstheim with 90+ Long Blade skill and less than 140 hitpoints.....

And you bring up yet another reason why I use these mods. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />

To me, leveling is an inherently out-of-character game mechanic thing, and I don't bother trying to "pretend" it's something specific in the life of my char. I see leveling as the character naturally becoming better and stronger over time. But in real life that's a gradual process. You don't work out at the gym all week with no change and then go to sleep and wake up the next morning suddenly stronger.

In real life sleeping is something I do because if I didn't I'd become more and more fatigued until I finally just crumpled into a little heap on the floor. In real life we sleep to avoid a negative, not to gain a positive.

I'm glad they got rid of this whole sleep-to-level-up thing in Skyrim. Skyrim leveling has its own problems, but an unrealistic method of triggering the leveling event is not one of them.

:Edit: Also, you mention going backwards. One of the mods I've used the most over the years is http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=2699 which introduces skill degradation into the mix. If a character does not use a skill for a long time they can "unlearn" that skill over time and lose skill points. I always thought that was really interesting.

Funny how I keep making the case for leveling mods... all while not using one! (Well, not exactly... BTBGI & co. definitely affect leveling, but they aren't leveling mods)
Yeah... nothing like smoothing over an out-of-character game mechanic with an equally out-of-character sudden need to find a bed! I agree that Skyrim handles this part of leveling much better. You still have the game mechanic to deal with, but now sans narcolepsy! (I think that's the only thing I like better about leveling in Skyrim, but it is definitely worth mentioning.)
That is really interesting. I'm glad to see someone took a stab at "unlearning". I'll have to look at that sometime... thanks for tossing that out there!

i haven't ever used a leveling mod so not sure what it changes, then again i still play the vanilla game no bug fixes or anything.

Morrowind and Oblivion's leveling was quite bad, It encouraged grinding to get the 5x multipliers otherwise you would have an underpowered character during the later stages of the game.

As opposed to having an overpowered character no matter what. - Unless you chose destruction magic.

Leveling isn't Bethesda's strong point. Neither is writing. Or animating.. Sometimes not even art design...

Oh Bethesda, I worry about where you'll stand in the upcoming sandbox craze.

I prefer the vanilla system and don't care about maximizing attributes. Weaknesses are part of a character and the game offers plenty of possibilities to circumvent or compensate those weaknesses. Natural progression makes things challenging and much more fun IMHO.

I'm fine with vanilla leveling. Do I think a character development system could be done better? Probably. But I'm used to the way Morrowind handled it and I don't want it changed.

I did try GCD for a while, simply because I liked the idea of having unfettered attributes and skills - but I always missed the level up screen. As with what PeterBitt said, it wasn't as much about increasing skills, but that your character was actually developing as an individual. But, now that the MCP has me covered with uncapped skills and attributes, I'm totally content.